Earl, Pilotmike, I apologise. Poor attention to detail on my part, rapid read of the posts early in the morning and still feeling a bit raw about losing another colleague and then reading a whole bunch of unintelligent speculation about the cause, this mornings Telegraph is a cracker. The MAAIB will get to the bottom of it idc. I have my theories, based around experience of the Hawk, display flying, and a whole host of other military flying experience. However, those I will keep to myself at this time.