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Old 17th Aug 2011, 19:29
  #3003 (permalink)  
Intruder
 
Join Date: May 2000
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I still think you are missing the point regarding center "sticks" and the different muscle sets used to move them - if a center stick provides roll control, then it pivots at the stick head (I presume you mean yoke type control, a pic or reference to aircraft type would help), your entire arm moves to effect the movement, pivoting at the ball socket of your shoulder. With a joystick this is never so.
. . .

But, really, were not all the required indications available to both PNF and Captain - surely the ADI and altitude readout alone should have been the only two instruments necessary to figure out the situation, along with the fact the engines were working:

1) I'm pitched up (What was it? 15 degrees or thereabouts?)
2) I'm falling at 10K/min
3) I have engine power

Hmmm, what could be wrong....

Did the PNF or Captain ever state - "The aircraft is stalled, pitch-down! Lower the nose!"

Was it because the PF had the SS nailed to the rear stop? Would that have been the vital clue to all in that cockpit? Or was the problem well past that?
Regarding center sticks, you are still very misinformed. Most pilots flying with a center "joystick" will rest the elbow or forearm on some conveniently provided (or innovated) rest (including, in some cases, the pilot's thigh or other body part). The shoulder movement is not needed for most low-amplitude motions.

In the A-6, for example, the pitch pivot on the stick was at the floor, but the roll pivot was half way up the stick, with another pushrod going through the floor from that pivot point. That allowed knee clearance at full roll deflections. When flying in cruise at altitude, the upper arm was normally at rest against the body, and again no shoulder movement was required.

Even in the 747, I rest my elbows on the armrests to manipulate the yoke in most flying regimes. During takeoff and crosswind landings I might use deliberate shoulder movements, but most of my flying is still done with fingers, wrist, and forearm. At times the armrest becomes a fulcrum for the forearm for larger-amplitude movements.

Though I have not flown with a left-hand sidestick, I still fly in both the right and left seats with a yoke. The stick and throttle motions transfer freely between hands when the controls are anchored.

With all that said, I have made NO judgement or statement regarding the setup of the Airbus cockpit and the lack of motion on the stick -- that was from others. I see that as a tertiary (or lower) issue. As you pointed out at the end of your post, it was a simple (at least after the first 30 seconds) matter of looking at attitude, altitude, and (possibly) vertical speed to analyze the situation and recover from the obvious stall. Tragically, that never happened. I might note here that I have flown in that regime in the past, because flying the A-4 in a stalled condition, with significant sink rate, at altitude was a great exercise in control discipline, and it recovered readily with the simple easing of the backstick.
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