IF it is pilot error what would interest me is why an experienced Captain could make such an error. Fatigue for instance?
It is highly unlikely that the last error, or indeed the last few errors in the chain, weren't made by the pilots. The real improvements will be in identifying why these errors were made. ie did a poor culture exist within the pilot group with respect to briefing intentions should the landing not be working out? Was the authority gradient in the flightdeck appropriate? Was deviation from SOPs the norm? Do the SOP's preclude retracting flap while still on an active runway? Does the rostering system result in fatigue? Were the pilots likely to face negative feedback from management if they diverted or conducted a go-around? The answers to questions like that will describe to you
why an experienced Captain could make such an error.
Or going around at 500' if not stable...... or, if you've not touched down by the end of the touchdown zone/markings...GO AROUND.
100% correct in my opinion.
Senior airline management need to be responsible for the cultivation of a culture in which this is the norm and deviating from it is seen as poor airmanship.
i saw 2 Caribbean airlines 738 vacating rwy there. both times, i was paying attention on the flap setting before and while they were vacating the rwy. and ofcourse, both times these were fully retracted before even getting to the runway end.
IMO this is going to be a major factor in the findings. Again....how can a companies SOP's be approved when they are flawed in this way? This incident may be the result of decisions made at a management level, should the regulator take some responsibility ? The head of operations?
After impact the cable from the flap handle to actuator, did not break, but was under 7 times normal tension due to the bent fuselage, this resulted in an up selection to the actuator, somehow there was enough residual Hyd. psi to retract them.
And you know this how? Are you sure it wasn't 8 times normal tension? How did you calibrate the tensiometer?
Maybe there was a problem with flaps, maybe it was not going to full 40. so the crew may have attempted to cycle it without success and in the confusion while on final approach may have inadvertently left the lever in the "UP" position with the flaps stuck partially extended. On short final the flap may have slowly started to follow the lever position (UP). This may not have been realised and the pilot (unknowingly) compensated by adding more power to maintain his speed, or the auto thrust system automatically doing so. This would explain the assumed somewhat long and fast landing
My Lord.....I sincerely hope that you are not an airline pilot. If that was the case, the Captain should surely be held responsible for making the decision to continue the approach with a flap problem into a short strip while 'confused'.
touched down only about half way down the runway abeam the terminal building with about 3000 feet of runway remaining.
Who would have thought? Instead of it being some freakish anomaly with flaps retracting by themselves , it's looking like a case of poor flight discipline. Who is responsible for the safety culture of an airline? I have my ideas on the answer to that.
As to the lack of flaps/slats.....perhaps that particular Captain retracted them at touchdown on short runways to dump the lift and, supposedly help with the stopping. Just a thought. I never did that but it WILL work.
Won't work very well in a 737-800 but anyway, if the SOP's don't stipulate where the after landing proceedure is to be commenced then there is a hole in the cheese just waiting to bite a crew.
A FA friend mentioned, on B738s, once the emergency evacuation is activated,the flaps will retract to allow pax to use the overwing exits as an evacuation area...
Your friend is wrong.
There are some posts on this thread that scare me a bit if they are made by airline pilots. Hopefully they are just teenage kids who love Microsoft FS and enjoy pretending to know things on this forum.
At the end of the day a combination of solid SOP's and the flight discipline to follow them and this over run would never have ocurred.
Framer