Originally Posted by
RatherBeFlying
in an ideal piloting environment I could perhaps be persuaded.
But when humans are involved, errors will happen.
PNF may have clued in had he seen his ss sitting on the back stop.
My underlying concern is that when stuff goes wrong, good information is needed for the crew to put things right.
Among other factors, ss position and some red on the altitude/VSI display might have alerted PNF even though it seems he was too nice a guy.
PNF does not seem to have had any positive ideas about what needed to be done -- nor did CDB.
PNF seemed perfectly well "clued in" when it all started to go wrong - he
knew PF was over controlling roll and chastised him for it, he
knew PF was climbing when he shouldn't have been. In fact PF is the one who seemed unaware of what he was doing with his own SS.
None of them seem to have recognised stall, even when the warning was continuous, no recovery is ever discussed or actioned. With the possible exception of TOGA - not sure about that, I almost get the sense that PF is saying "can't be stalled, I'm in TOGA", but can't be sure (anyone else read it that way ?). In fact looks like PF thinks he's over speed if anything.
Captain I feel sorry for, he comes back in to stall warnings, AOA already so high that instrument data is going haywire left right and centre, no visual reference, and he has to work out what's happened without any info other than "we lost it". He has only 2 mins to diagnose stall and have the confidence to order 30deg or more nose down to attempt a recovery. I don't think hereally had a chance to save it from then.