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Old 27th Jul 2011, 13:26
  #765 (permalink)  
HarryMann
 
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JD-EE
The same way a tacking sailboat can go faster than the wind. If you hit the wind at the right angle with an airfoil you can acquire energy from the wind. Of course, the sailboat has its keel to make this effect more pronounced. That allows its crumby airfoil called a sail to work. The sailplane has only its mass to provide the effect.
This is nothing to do with circling (thermalling) in a steady moving air mass (which was the question).

It seems to approximate a description of dynamic soaring through an altitude range with a wind gradient i.e. the flight of the Albatross (which wasn't the question)

=== Retired F4 ===

A useful observation (about low to zero 'g' sensations) I think. I also think there is no chance the pilot got his 'ups & downs' & 'push & pulls' wrong - if he did there is one massive question to be raised over the whole airline industry for years to come

This is exactly the situation with weight control Vs aerod control (bar Vs stick) aircraft.. one pushes, the other pulls for the same effect.
I found when teaching some stick-centric pilots would get it wrong... whereas I never could imagine a situaton, in an aircraft or on a computer sim of getting it wrong, despite flying h/gs and powered h/gs lot, despite initially flying with a stick (from age 16) how could one not make that switch immeditaely and correctly... ? Proviso, as long as one kept a picture in your minds eye.. so are we saying there may be people flying by rote, like learning things parrot fashion instead of understanding the basics and working up from there, the exam tick box generation OMG

No, that has to be ruled out, PF meant NU, UP, CLB, SLOWER or he had already given up focusing on the task of speed & pitch stabilisation by then.


As RetiredF4 suggests between the lines, unless you have been in a stall and been taken through the ND inputs, wait for pitch and speed to come back, steady (constant 'g' if poss) recovery and pullout etc THEN I suppose, how would you know what was required, or indeed, how long it might take..
IMHO - It is unonscionable that pilots have not acquired high manual handling skills in conventionally controlled aircraft before being accepted for Commercial Flying of almost any nature.
Fiddling with the stick for a few seconds to see what happens with the stall warning, if that is what we think may have happened, is the sign of trainee, not an experienced airline pilot

I am not suggesting PF nor PNF had or hadn't those skills

Last edited by HarryMann; 27th Jul 2011 at 13:33. Reason: Typos, typis, tapas
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