ok, I phrased that incorrectly.... What Im looking to understand is that if you are not on a heading (vectors) and under radar control, are you receiving terrain clearance?? In lots of instances in Europe, one can be given direct to an IAF or IF and given descent below MSA. Are you responsible and required to maintain a profile above the MSA even though issued with descent clearance below, as all I can find from ICAO is that ATC are only responsible for terrain clearance when you are in receipt of vectors.