Try to understand the RoE, Dan. You post it here, we argue it here. If you don't like that, sorry.
OOPS, I just noticed that Senior Pilot has spoken.
Nothing further.
@ SASless:
The Osprey is fast, quieter than helicopters in cruise....but in the final analysis....it takes guns to counter hostile threats. That is not the Osprey's strong suit....especially when compared to the helicopters it is to replace.
OK, so arm the Osprey. (Or, as they say, make sure AV-8 or other FW is around for fire support. )
That still won't change the fact that coming into an LZ that is hot will make for a bad day.
EDIT:
Case in point, even before Osprey, organic guns on Helicopters insufficient to handle Hot LZ, your chosen fight being Taku Ghar:
An AC-130 gunship, Nail 22, flew a reconnaissance mission over the peak prior to the landing and saw no enemy activity, but was called away to support other troops before Razor 03 and 04 arrived at the Landing Zone. At around 0245 hours, Razor 03 landed at the LZ and was immediately struck in the left side electrical compartment by an RPG
If Spectre is still overhead when Razors arrive, things change a bit, eh?
Plans only work right up to the point where contact is made with the enemy.
We are in violent agreement.
That said, there are tools available now that weren't available thirty years ago. Some risks and unknowns can now be accounted for and dealt with, but certainly NOT all.
All the sensors failed at Takur Ghar....and helicopters got shot down....folks died. Be it today or forty years ago...when the shooting starts it is all the same.
That was sort of my point, except I think it's
more lethal now, as there are more weapons choices.
Human presence and their capabilities to view the battlefield and make accurate judgements were overruled by Commanders literally thousands of miles away and completely isolated from the battlefield. Input from the guys on the scene was ignored.....and good brave men died as a direct result.
That hasn't changed much in the past century, and applies to more than vertical assault.
Need I refer you to accounts of that combat action to support my statements?
I think we mostly agree on that. I just find it curious logic to single out the Osprey as
uniquely vulnerable to lead in an LZ. Maybe that isn't your point.
I don't think that anyone has made the claim that it is less vulnerable. If they have, then your call of "BS" gets my support.
A few weeks/months back, someone opened the line (I think in re the Lybian OPS F-15 pilot retrieval mission) about how Osprey is somehow "more stealthy" and quiter than a helicopter.
I made some criticisms of that approach.
Cheers.