Well didnt I open a can of worms.. .I think Greengauge22 needs to simmer slightly, I can tell you that myself and Presbycusis are indeed seperate people and did not start this thread to have a go at OAT. . .Lots of valuable input added to this topic, All I was after was conformation of a rumour, I think Greengauge got a bit carried away harping on about SEPT11!. .Cheers Chaps.