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Old 15th Jun 2011, 20:22
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Lonewolf_50
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Age: 64
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bear, please stop mixing apples and oranges in your OODA soup, rather than any useful OODA loop. PD: I learned of OODA before the Endless September arrived. It has aged well.

The OODA loop is what it is. It remains as what Boyd first laid out when he was teaching how to improve air combat maneuvering. (Dogfighting, if you prefer). Of interest is the question of whose decision cycle prevails, robot or pilot, but there is only limited evidence to support them being in that much conflict in alternate law. It remains at some points an open question.

(Or was there more conflict? Not sure, appears to apply to normal law, which sat on the bench_.

Taking the OODA framework and applying it to other disciplines requires adapting the basic model and flow, since the patterns and value in the iterative process, and the speed of the iterative process, lead to a form of the continuous improvement model.

That doesn't change what the Decision Cycle is.

When you fly, you are a living breathing decision cycle the whole time you are flying ... otherwise, YOU ARE CARGO. That doesn't mean you have to act or decide fast, but you do have to make good decisions, and your Observe and Orient need to be accurate. If I observe and misorient, my odds of a bad Decide or Act move goes up.

Each time you get to the Act node you can decide to do as PJ2 suggests ... wait for the next cycle is an action. (This also works when sitting in an ambush and waiting for the right time to pull a trigger, light infantry style).

Or, per the spin recovery in smaller planes, wait for the second or third turn (and sometimes tightening spin rate) to see that your opposite rudder was effective ...)

The other point in Boyd is avoiding tunnel vision, which means not just look at your target, but your whole battlefield ... enough on OODA extensions.

Chris's recent posts suggest to me that the pilots in AF 447 may have gotten behind the decision cycle somewhere in between 35000 feet level, and 35000 feet on the way down. The 11 seconds or 45 seconds PJ2 and you were discussing a while back can lead you to a root cause regarding an Observe-Orient problem which led to Decisions and Actions that may have been based on faulty input, based on faulty pitot probe input.

OODA as anti pilot?

Stuff and Nonsense.

OODA came from pilots. It is what we do. (It is what flight computers to a large extent try to mimic, in their own special way).

That Boyd took an idea and went beyond its origin speaks well of him: he was one smart guy. He did that "out of the box" and "cross discipline migration" thing very, very well.

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 15th Jun 2011 at 21:25.
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