Originally Posted by
Pilot DAR
Though I do not claim to be an expert in this, and am not an instructor, on the whole I don't agree with the generalization that the foregoing would be dangerous. It could be dangerous, but then many things in a plane can be.
Pilot DAR
First off I would like say that I think your posts are always very informative and I value your contributions to this forum. However I think you have entirely
missed the point I was trying to make by making a common mistake, that is extrapolating your very considerable experience to what
should be expected of a low hour student.
It is entirely appropriate that an engineering test pilot explore the full VMC regime because the point of the exercise is to assess compliance with the certification standards. However when teaching the Multi Engine rating demonstrating the actual VMC in certification required configuration is irrelevant. The point of the exercise is teach the student to recognize the onset of a speed below which the aircraft can be directionally controlled and then how to safely recover. This can be just as easily and IMO much more safely, be demonstrated by limiting rudder travel to half travel during the demonstration. I would also like to point out that the flight in which I experienced the upset in the Seneca was preceded, like all my ME instructional flights, with a comprehensive brief which emphasized the importance of lowering the nose to maintain a safe airspeed during an engine failure in an overshoot. Despite that the student in the heat of the moment got everything backwards.....but then that is the challenge of teaching low houred PPL's in complex airplanes, a challenge that does not exist for test pilots flying a very carefully thought out test card.
FFF
I respect what you say but I guess we have a philosophical difference over the conduct of flight training. Your having control of the rudder, elevator and power during a full on VMC makes the manoever safe, but for the manoever to IMO be of full value the student
on their own must be able to demonstrate they can control the aircraft. They can obviously only do this if they have
their hands on the rudder, elevator, and throttle.....
I guess I have contributed to a conversation that most properly belongs in the instructor forum so my apologies for the thread drift