PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Decision to axe Harrier is "bonkers".
View Single Post
Old 18th May 2011, 20:27
  #690 (permalink)  
WE Branch Fanatic
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Devon
Posts: 2,814
Received 20 Likes on 16 Posts
I have now edited the last post, which now notes that Apache first went to sea in 2004, but has only achieved weapon firings seven years later, so it cannot be that easy...

Now that we are talking about attacking targets at sea.....

With the loss of Harrier, the RN has lost Maverick. This is unfortunate as it could not only attack ground targets, but maritime ones too, as a US Navy P3 Orion recently did:

Further in the operation, U.S. Navy and coalition units came to aid of the Libyan people to engage Libyan Coast Guard vessel Vittoria and two smaller craft who were firing indiscriminately at merchant vessels in the port of Misrata, Libya, during the late evening of March 28.

Commander, Task Force (CTF) 65 led by Capt. Dan Shaffer, analyzed their collected data to move appropriate Joint Force Maritime Component Command (JFMCC) forces into position to observe real time events, making this operation the first time that a Sea Combat Commander has coordinated and executed a combined strike against hostile naval forces.

Vittoria was engaged and fired upon by a U.S. Navy P-3C Maritime Patrol aircraft with AGM-65 Maverick missiles; the first time that these missiles have ever been fired on a hostile vessel by a P-3C.


This seems like a useful capability that we are losing - we can no longer attack surface vessels beyond the range of frigate based Harpoons or Spearfish armed SSNs. For many vessels Harpoon or Spearfish would be unsuitable. Although attack hostile surface vessels is a Lynx role, less frigates means less Lynx platforms. Also would we risk Lynx in potentially hostile airspace?

Recently Gaddafi has used light aircraft and helicopters to attack rebel positions, taking advantage of the problems NATO faces in enforcing the no fly zone. I cannot help but wonder if he perhaps has a few surviving MiGs hidden from NATO. He has also shown an increasing willingness to attack NATO forces. Additionally there have been MiGs and attack helicopters operated by or on behalf of the rebels, and now Sea Shepherd are joining in.

What if Gaddafi loyalists attempt an air attack, perhaps against NATO warships (or their helicopters), as a propaganda coup? I suspect that the ROE for ships offshore from Libya will be very restrictive, and no ship based weapon or sensor can positively identify an aircraft. How useful would it be to have a manned jet, available as an organic asset, that can visually identify suspicious aircraft (and fire Sidewinder at them if needed)?

Incidentally, the Auriga deployment of 2010 featured the Ark Royal based Harrier GR9s doing air to air work against Hornets, both in self defence whilst doing ground attack and in air defence of the task group - directed on to the target by the ASaCS Sea King and shipborne fighter controllers. I think I am correct in thinking that the Harrier GR7/9 has splashed various jets in exercises.

As the current operations are the first post SDSR conflict, and the decision to axe Harrier was a last minute part of the SDSR, it is only right and proper that these issues are discussed here.

Last edited by WE Branch Fanatic; 18th May 2011 at 23:04.
WE Branch Fanatic is offline