Jupiter 2,
What a valid point you make. You would know from my posts above that I went back, and am not ashamed for a moment of my actions; the only shame I carry is that I was so stupid to think that it could have been won by the pilots.
What I am really ashamed of however, is the way some of our number unashamedly rode roughshod over GA pilots, taking their jobs from day 1, often on less than award conditions, just to secure an income. There were plenty who treated their GA colleagues like $hit, considering it their right, as airline pilots, to do so. Who were the greedy, self serving ones then?? Those who chose to go back to work? I don't think so.
Then there were those who went overseas and took commands in front of local FO's and felt it was their right to do so. Also, they announced to all who would listen, and some who would not, that they were there only until the AFAP secured a win, and they could go back to their previous positions. What a disgrace they were.
I knew a guy (then an FO) who came from the middle east post dispute, and told the story of an AN 737 Capt sitting on his verandah (invited by a friend), drinking his beer, and telling him (FO) that he (Capt) was going to come to his airline and take a command. Imagine how that went over. Chris didn't go to the middle east, and is now a CX Capt.
Jupiter, these guys are never going to get over it for a simple reason. They know they made the wrong decision, detest what they are doing and where, and wish like hell that they had stayed.
Of course, if they had, Ansett would never have collapsed because there would have been pilots of great principles steering it towards greater success. Yeah, right!
7 X 7,
Likewise, I'm elated that my wife stood by me in my decision. They are different decisions, but if we're both happy about that, then it can't be a bad thing. Mine never insisted that I go back, but when I made the decision, she was right behind me. So our wives have something in common, and what an admirable quality supporting your man is. Loyalty I think it's called.
As for insidious thoughts creeping into minds late at night; how could/would it have been different. Airlines around the world collapse almost monthly. People get by; some change their career paths, others get jobs locally, and some overseas.
Interestingly, a year down the track, 50% of those in the market for a flying job, have that job. There were a few over 800 pilots, out of which 70 were over 60 years of age. About 80, late fifties, have just retired, and almost 20 of the young guys have gone to university, or just given it away in disillusionment. About 340 had jobs on last count, and I daresay that a year after August ?? 1989 that nowhere near 50% of those previously employed would have had jobs. So it's not all bad, is it??
Knackered,
The resignations weren't forced by legal action. See my post above where one of the sheep farmers was spruiking weeks before the event that 'I can't tell you what we're going to do, but it'll sure F... them.' Well it did F... them. Them being the pilots. So it was planned well before the writs issue, and we were told that they would never be used, just waved in front of the management, and that would cause them to capitulate. Well, we all saw the result of that threat. See below re the mgt being in possession of the tactic long before the event.
Wizofoz,
Good points, again.
Downtheback,
You're right on the button, my dear. No rights when you resigned. Would you have a right to any input on issues at the local bowling club if you'd resigned your membership??
Wasn't this the classic case of using the big gun without having a back door exit? Once the resignations were handed over, it was all over. They couldn't then say, that they didn't intend to resign because the unior heirarchy would look foolish/more foolish.
My understanding was that even the senior industrial officer of the AFAP wasn't in favour of the resignation tactic. Isn't that in Brad Norrington's book? Maybe I'm mistaken.
Brisboy & Others,
I don't suggest that I'm dictating the terms to SQ on my basing. If they offer Singapore, then I won't be going. I have indicated a preference for an Australian basing, and I would have considered it stupid to have done any more. I'll take an Australian basing if it's offered, but not Singapore if it's offered. Simple as that. And to whoever suggested it's the November intake, do you know something I don't? I'm waiting on both a date and base.
It's not that I can't cut it in the big bad world of international aviation, Brisboy. Rather it's a simple case of choosing to live and work in/from my current domicile. I'm a creature of habit; like my home, like feeding wallabies on the back porch, like the Australian bush, and like running my couple of quite small but successful businesses, which incidentaly, I've made more money from than flying. And also incidentally, businesses which you may have used over the years. Simple as that. I think those who read here would know that I am more than capable of verbal jousting with the best, so there's no fear there.
As for being a social leper in the Singapore expat community, I don't see it. On a recent visit, I socialized with a banker, businessman, broker, and an aid worker, and not once was I asked if I was a $cab from Australia. Interesting. And if I was a social leper, then I have a multitude of Singaporean friends from many, many years ago, prior to flying, when I lived there. We've kept in touch, visit each other from time to time, and they have no interest in an industrial event in the third world 13 years ago.
Spad,
No war, no painting black crosses on aircraft, no Kokoda Track , no capitulation. What are you talking about?? and what are you smoking??
The only comments I have on your 'unusual' post is that I NEVER promised to stand the ground, and you are in a similar position in that you have no one to gainsay your version of the events, events which I believe your young FOs are sick to death of being regaled with over many years.
Elektra,
You got me. I was just winding you up. Your teenagers have equipped you well, and you do make a good point or two.
Now to all, the issue of solidarity. There were two groups demonstrating solidarity. Those who didn't resign, voted against the action as ill conceived, and subsequently withdrew their resignations also demonstrated solidarity. Those who didn't hold the (absurd) line showed solidarity with each other as well. I know, I know, there'll be howls from TTT, KM, Spad, Amos, etc., who will contend that they were money driven, glory driven, management stooges, and a thousand other things, but if the AFAP had decreed that we should all slit our wrists, I'm sure there would have been a number who would have slavishly followed their ridiculous request/demand.
The AFAP was never my choice of industrial representation. It was a bloody closed shop, and I had no choice. And why would I want it to be with a Parramatta Road car salesman in his guady checked suit calling everybody 'pal' in nominal control. Then there was the midget who had a nasty habit of putting his feet on Abeles' desk. These people saw it as their role to educate the Australian masses in the finesse of industrial relations. Never lost one, and no doubt they were buoyed by that, but when you back yourself into a corner, there is an inevitable result. A tiger snake on my porch discovered that an hour ago, just as we were no match for a shovel that went by the name of Hawke.
203,
Yes, I felt like a real idiot for even considering their demand. I should have walked out, gone sick or some alternative course of action. Can you imagine being summoned by the union at about 9pm to be at HQ at 10pm. For Perth pilots it was 8pm so that nobody could leak the ridiculous request. Can't tell you what it's about was the message. The resignations would not be 'active', but merely used to 'frighten' the management. The management was already in possession of the tactic. A management pilot told me (I'll save you writing it fellas; he was probably lying) after the event that he was rung (management pilots could be members of the union) but told them he wasn't resigning even before being asked to come in at 10 pm. Hope that answers your question. It's been suggested there was an AFAP mole, on the payroll of the company post resignations, who had shuffled from management to the AFAP a couple of times over the years. He is now with
VB in a senior position.
General comment - There's something I've learnt over the years when dealing with the union and management. There are usually three agendas. There's the management agenda, the pilots' agenda, and the union agenda. It follows that generally the union and management agendas aren't/won't be the same, but what many don't realize is that often, more often than most realize, the agendas of the pilots and union are not the same either, although one would imagine that they should be so. You see, when somebody becomes an office bearer in the union, other issues come into play, the principal one being power. They need to create and preserve a power base, and if that means not precisely representing the wishes of the pilot group, whom they purport to represent, then that's an unfortunate casualty of the way life works. See elsewhere; Life's a $hit sandwich, etc.
How do you guys feel working in countries where the terms are dictated to you; no union representation, no input. Just do the job, shut up, and if you don't like it, pi$$ off?? It must be galling. The reason I ask is that I may well be doing that shortly. I think my views are more moderate in that area though. It's part of being an employee - Life's a $**** etc. I'd stil be interested in your comments though.
I'm terribly sorry about the long post, but it was necessary to answer previous posts.