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Old 14th Apr 2011, 17:07
  #3489 (permalink)  
Bergerie1
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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HazleNuts

I was not aware of there being a cyclic nature to the high speed buffet. The only times I have experienced the high speed buffet on all three types I did not experience that but, in general, feel that it was less 'rough' and of a higher frequency than the low speed buffet. But it was all a long time ago and memory plays tricks.

Obviouslty, too, my experience was on older aircraft not FBW, and neither do I know what stall training is done these days. However, if it is only to the onset of buffet or stall warning, pilots will not know the stall characteristics of their aircraft. Also, if it is done using the traditional method of trimming to 1.3Vs and then reducing airspeed at 1kt/sec they will be unaware of two important factors:-

(1) In an unintentional stall following an unnoticed decay of airspeed (Turkish Airlines at Amsterdam is a case in point) the autopilot will have trimmed the stabiliser nose up. Therefore, when the pilot belatedly recognises the situation, the aircraft will be severely out of trim with, perhaps, insufficient elevator authority to accomplsh a straight forward recovery, and this will be excerbated with underslung wing mounted engines when power is applied.

(2) In the case of an accelerated stall caused, either by pulling G or by a large gust or both, the time between the onset of buffet and the stall itself may be very short, only 1 or 2 seconds - insufficient time for most pilots to recognise the problem.

Of course, if what others have said about the Airbus aircraft shouting 'stall' 'stall' 'stall', stall recognition should be obvious! However, when you have lost envelope protection (and here again I do not know enough about FBW), and with modern wings designed for max efficiency in cruise is there a tendancy in some conditions for the aircraft to continue pitching nose up? If there is, and AF447 was in alternate law, it might be possible to get into a super stall very quickly.

I won't add more to the already extensive speculations in this thread, as other have said let's wait for the recorders. But I do wonder whether enough training is done on all aspects of the stall rather than just demonstrating the approach to and recovery from the classic stall.
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