PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - SATA brand new A320 ; hard landing in Lisbon
Old 27th Feb 2011, 05:16
  #88 (permalink)  
PJ2
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: BC
Age: 76
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Gentlemen;

I anticipated that this explanation had the potential to confuse and drive opinion to corners. If one does not fly the airplane, isn't experienced on it, or doesn't know the systems, it is challenging to offer the notion that this isn't a problem while at the same time "explaining" the airplane.

In fact, the airplane has thousands upon thousands of unremarkable, ordinary, normal landings accompanied by none of the misapprehensions or confused understandings about swept wings, holding on power til the last minute etc.

The system is more subtle than credit is given.

If one needs more thrust at the last moment it is available. One is not along for the ride if one understands and flies the airplane like the beloved B737, etc, ad hoc.

The requirement (SOP) to reduce thrust levers to IDLE prior to touchdown is normal ops. In short-term shear conditions or other conditions which trend towards going below Vls, either the autothrust will repond if the thrust levers are not in the IDLE position, or one can move the thrust levers forward (out of the autothrust regime) and obtain instant thrust. It simply is not an issue, nor is the requirement to have the thrust levers at IDLE prior to touchdown.

I hear the "yes, but's..." offered here, and they simply aren't any more relevant to this airplane than they are to standard Boeings and Lockheeds.

For example, one NEVER closed the throttles on a B727 until the flare was completed. One didn't do it on a heavier DC8 but a light one would float if one didn't push a bit on the stick after flaring too early and rolling it on and not eating up runway. Do that same thing on the L1011 and it would thunder on as pushing would raise the spoilers a bit from their "neutral", extended position. Each type is different.

I've flown Boeings, Douglases, Lockheeds and Airbusi...this simply isn't an issue, IF one understands one's airplane as it may differ from one's previous types, just like "previous previous" types did at one time in one's career...

I do not "defend" the Airbus unconditionally. It has its problems, some of which have not even been guessed at let alone mentioned by occasional contributors. What I resist is not criticism but lack of comprehension of the Airbus A320/A330 series accompanied by the unabashed willingness to comment on something that is only known from reading.

If anyone above has experience flying the A320, tell me and we can engage in fine-point discussion, but I am betting no one here (except CONF iture, who's points I have responded to), who has made the last few posts knows the airplane first-hand through being trained on it and flying it.

The airplane has its interesting features, just like every other airplane we could name here, (except perhaps the L1011-500), and one learns such features and flies one's machine accordingly. It is an airplane...nothing more. And if one is at the boundaries of controlled flight, it, like all airplanes, will be less predictable. It is "how" it is unpredictable where system knowledge and experience come to the fore.

Q.E.D.

fdr;

Re-reading your comments, I believe I understand what you're saying but unfamiliar behaviour outside normal experience can occur on all aircraft and untoward events can occur if SOPs aren't adhered to. If the A320 bounces high and the WOW has latched, closing the thrust levers to idle will satisfy spoiler deployment conditions and that is what happened in the two events I know about. Somewhat related to your thoughts on entering the "retard" mode, the ATR software has been modified such that in any bounce, the spoilers deploy more slowly, (as mentioned in the report).

I think you'll appreciate that there are a number of problems to address which have conflicting requirements, all of which occur rapidly in the landing phase.

BOAC;
To have an FOQA 'event' for this raises even more doubts in my mind. Why?
There should be no confusion, and why the doubts?....it is an SOP, and because the event (for thrust levers at idle at t/d) was instituted after the TAM A320 accident at Congonhas - the event monitored split levers as well. The event is trended and would be part of on-going reports - no big thing. It's an airplane...one can "squeeze" the power off slowly while flaring, just like any airplane.

PJ2

Last edited by PJ2; 27th Feb 2011 at 07:13. Reason: add comments for fdr and BOAC
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