There would appear to be a
serious overstaffing of Spanish Air Traffic Controllers and this may well be the real reason for the Spanish Controllers trying to protect their "Closed Shop" job with every ruse, be it legal or not.
Once the airports are partially privatised within the next 12-18 months and air traffic control towers are run by private firms, the Spanish ATCOs will need to work according to European standards and systems.
If you don't believe me, read on or page back to pages 14 and 15 of this thread:
Quote:
19th Jul 2010, 16:45 #263 (permalink) speedbird462
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London
Posts: 13
approach procedures in Spain
I have just read on the national television news website that around 34% of the rostered ATCOs at Barcelona Control Centre were on sick leave today.
I am not particularly interested in the reasons for sickness but rather in the number of ATCOs rostered.
32 for en-route
14 for Approah
7 on standby
I am an approach controller myself and my question is:
do you need 14 Approach controllers for Barcelona for a morning shift? how many holds do you have and what are the complications of the airspace/conflicting traffic patterns that require 14 Approach controllers?
Please excuse me before hand if the information is not accurate and if so I would appreciate the right information.
Thanks!
19th Jul 2010, 20:54 #
268 (
permalink)
calcagafo
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Barcelona
Age: 38
Posts: 10
approach procedures in Spain
Hi Speedbird:
First I want to say hi to everybody, since I just registered and this is my first post.
I´ve only been working in Barcelona approach for 20 months, but here´s what I know with rwy 25R in service for landings and 25L for departures.
We have five sectors, two for initial approach and departures(one separates departing traffic going north and west and incoming traffic from the west, the other separates departing traffic going south and east and incoming traffic from the south), two feeders and one Final approach. One feeder also does the approach to LEGE(girona), this sector and final approach get three people each, the other three sectors are managed with the other 8 ATCO´s.
That´s (almost)3 atco´s per sector: one on frequency, one coordinator and one resting, we take turns every hour, wich makes 33% resting time and 66% working time.
There are 4 holds, two in the northern feeder(one for traffic coming from the west, the other one for traffic from the north ), and two in the southern feeder(south and east).
Hope this helped
How is it in London?
20th Jul 2010, 15:46 #
281 (
permalink)
speedbird462
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London
Posts: 13
Approach procedures in Spain
Hola Calcagafo!
Thanks for the info. It seems that our system in the UK is slightly different. Since you mentioned that you use two runways at Barcelona, I can only compare it to the Heathrow operation, similar 27L&R. There are also 4 stacks, two to the north of the field for inbounds from the north and two to the south for inbounds from the south. There are 5 positions: Intermediate Director South & Support, Intermediate Director North & Support & Final Director. INT North is the master director and runs the show, deciding the sequence. INT south works inbounds from the south following the sequence of INT north. Both INT directors feed the traffic to Final Director for final sequencing. The TMA area controllers work all of the departures except on an easterly configuration where INT south works departures that are in direct conflict with inbound traffic. During low-medium traffic (rare at EGLL), only two positions are manned INT (North+ South+Support) and Final director. But most of the time Heathrow Approach has 4 controllers on frequency. On a normal morning shift Heathrow has 5 or 6 controllers on duty to allow for breaks, mostly 30mins to 1hr and 30 mins off. Your procedures must be very different and complicated to require 14 controllers for a shift? There is quite a difference 14 to 6 and Heathrow handles a bit more traffic than Barcelona. I just wonder… and I hope this helps too.
On a different note, Mr Blanco has clearly no idea of how air traffic works and how long it takes to train and validate controllers!! All I can say is keep a good look out if military controllers get to control civil traffic in Spain!
21st Jul 2010, 08:37 #
285 (
permalink)
calcagafo
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Barcelona
Age: 38
Posts: 10
Approach procedures in Spain
Hi there Speedbird:
I think I see how you work, all in all the procedures seem not that different:
what we here call approach includes the whole TMA (14 controllers, six of them on frequency).
Still, the main difference I see (and it´s a big one at that) is that here, for every controller on frequency there is another one monitoring his work in an adjacent screen, and doing the coordinations with the sectors involved (talking on telephone lines or just screaming ).
That makes, 6 on frequency, 6 coordinators and two on a break; changing positions every hour or so.
I understand you don´t have that coordination position?, and every controller on frequency is on his/her own?
Thanks for your support.
There would appear to be a
serious overstaffing of Spanish Air Traffic Controllers and this may well be the real reason for the Spanish Controllers trying to protect their "Closed Shop" job with every ruse, be it legal or not.
Once the airports are partially privatised within the next 12-18 months and air traffic control towers are run by private firms, the Spanish ATCOs will need to work according to European standards and systems.
If you don't believe me, read on or page back to pages 14 and 15 of this thread:
Quote:
19th Jul 2010, 16:45 #263 (permalink) speedbird462
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London
Posts: 13
approach procedures in Spain
I have just read on the national television news website that around 34% of the rostered ATCOs at Barcelona Control Centre were on sick leave today.
I am not particularly interested in the reasons for sickness but rather in the number of ATCOs rostered.
32 for en-route
14 for Approah
7 on standby
I am an approach controller myself and my question is:
do you need 14 Approach controllers for Barcelona for a morning shift? how many holds do you have and what are the complications of the airspace/conflicting traffic patterns that require 14 Approach controllers?
Please excuse me before hand if the information is not accurate and if so I would appreciate the right information.
Thanks!
19th Jul 2010, 20:54 #
268 (
permalink)
calcagafo
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Barcelona
Age: 38
Posts: 10
approach procedures in Spain
Hi Speedbird:
First I want to say hi to everybody, since I just registered and this is my first post.
I´ve only been working in Barcelona approach for 20 months, but here´s what I know with rwy 25R in service for landings and 25L for departures.
We have five sectors, two for initial approach and departures(one separates departing traffic going north and west and incoming traffic from the west, the other separates departing traffic going south and east and incoming traffic from the south), two feeders and one Final approach. One feeder also does the approach to LEGE(girona), this sector and final approach get three people each, the other three sectors are managed with the other 8 ATCO´s.
That´s (almost)3 atco´s per sector: one on frequency, one coordinator and one resting, we take turns every hour, wich makes 33% resting time and 66% working time.
There are 4 holds, two in the northern feeder(one for traffic coming from the west, the other one for traffic from the north ), and two in the southern feeder(south and east).
Hope this helped
How is it in London?
20th Jul 2010, 15:46 #
281 (
permalink)
speedbird462
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London
Posts: 13
Approach procedures in Spain
Hola Calcagafo!
Thanks for the info. It seems that our system in the UK is slightly different. Since you mentioned that you use two runways at Barcelona, I can only compare it to the Heathrow operation, similar 27L&R. There are also 4 stacks, two to the north of the field for inbounds from the north and two to the south for inbounds from the south. There are 5 positions: Intermediate Director South & Support, Intermediate Director North & Support & Final Director. INT North is the master director and runs the show, deciding the sequence. INT south works inbounds from the south following the sequence of INT north. Both INT directors feed the traffic to Final Director for final sequencing. The TMA area controllers work all of the departures except on an easterly configuration where INT south works departures that are in direct conflict with inbound traffic. During low-medium traffic (rare at EGLL), only two positions are manned INT (North+ South+Support) and Final director. But most of the time Heathrow Approach has 4 controllers on frequency. On a normal morning shift Heathrow has 5 or 6 controllers on duty to allow for breaks, mostly 30mins to 1hr and 30 mins off. Your procedures must be very different and complicated to require 14 controllers for a shift? There is quite a difference 14 to 6 and Heathrow handles a bit more traffic than Barcelona. I just wonder… and I hope this helps too.
On a different note, Mr Blanco has clearly no idea of how air traffic works and how long it takes to train and validate controllers!! All I can say is keep a good look out if military controllers get to control civil traffic in Spain!
21st Jul 2010, 08:37 #
285 (
permalink)
calcagafo
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Barcelona
Age: 38
Posts: 10
Approach procedures in Spain
Hi there Speedbird:
I think I see how you work, all in all the procedures seem not that different:
what we here call approach includes the whole TMA (14 controllers, six of them on frequency).
Still, the main difference I see (and it´s a big one at that) is that here, for every controller on frequency there is another one monitoring his work in an adjacent screen, and doing the coordinations with the sectors involved (talking on telephone lines or just screaming ).
That makes, 6 on frequency, 6 coordinators and two on a break; changing positions every hour or so.
I understand you don´t have that coordination position?, and every controller on frequency is on his/her own?
Thanks for your support.
