Yes, you may have been living under a rock. Gulfstream Airlines in Florida, Alpine Air in Utah spring to mind just to name two. Look in the back of any American GA magazine and you'll find ads for them. If the current NPRM passes I don't think it will be possible for the PTFs to continue as it will just take far too long for their schemes to work. AirRabbit you seem to be fighting this really hard, what's your solution or do you think there is a problem at all ?