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Old 15th Aug 2010, 00:14
  #30 (permalink)  
Wazzoo
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Crinkley Bottom
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Ok, I'll bite.

First of all, LASORS. No, it isn't the law, but it does however 'bring together all the flight crew licensing information otherwise found in JAR-FCL, the UK ANO, AICs and the old CAPs 53/54' and is written and distributed by the CAA, the aviation authority in the UK, for the guidance of pilots. Thus, you could be forgiven for taking it as law or as close as you can get to it. If it is wrong then you should take that up with the CAA rather than berate the pilots who are guided by it - an intricate and detailed knowledge of JAR-FCL should not be required for the every day commercial pilot. For that matter, I don't believe that LASORS allows for an F/O to claim PICus or P1/S or whatever for every flight they are PF. There are specific requirements that LASORS say that should go along with that which 99% of flights as PF in the RHS don't' meet.

Secondly, it frustrates me no end when Agaricus bisporous implies that there has been some disasterous downtrend in the attitudes of F/Os in recent years and hark back to those golden years when every F/O had worked there way up ab intio and was always receptive, gagging for knowledge and took every captains word to heart. Granted the 18yr old P2F with dads mortgage is a relatively modern disease in the industry but that shouldn't be a reflection on those who've been fortunate to have been put through all their training by one way or other and moved straight into the RHS of a jet transport a/c because lets face it, thats been going on for decades under the likes of BA and other airlines who took a duty of care in helping people into the industry. And along the way every captain has bemoaned how standards have dropped and pilots just aren't the same any more, whether that was the RAF captain of the 40s who distrusted anyone who hadn't commanded a fast jet or the captain of today who has commendably worked his way through from instructing and towing to the LHS of a 744 and resents a new F/O who hasn't had to experience the same hardships.

I put to you that the majority of new F/Os these days are gagging for knowledge and feeding off the experience of their elders and betters at any opportunity, and just like years gone past there are a few who believe themselves above it all and know everything already. At the same time, I would say there is a fair number of Captains who are sitting in the lefthand seat who just don't have a clue, they don't know the systems or the SOPs. And nine times out of ten those very same captains don't have the airmanship to fly without the knowledge and SOPs. They are arrogant, ignorant and should have never made up to the position of commander and it pays for the F/O to sceptical, to treat the god given advice given by such line captains, and on occasion trainers, that contradicts most SOPs and received knowledge as BS. The command course will come along in time and they will have to show they know when to keep quiet and listen and when to speak up and question.

I'm sorry to diverge from the main topic here, but when those above feel the need to add extra barbs to their argument than the facts involved I feel the need to refute them. For every disinterested and arrogant F/O who's had a cushy intro into the industry theres a bitter and ignorant Captain who hasn't maintained his knowledge or skills.

With that said, I move on to the subject in hand.

Given that we have this situation of F/Os requiring a certain number of PIC hours in order to meet the requirements for an ATPL and for those who have moved straight from training to commercial multi-pilot flying - a reality of the industry here in the UK for many decades - without sending them back to blow holes in the clouds in a C152, how are they meant to gain the required PIC hours required?

The original solution envisaged was that the airline would implement a structured training program such that the F/O would be able to gain the required hours through acting as PIC under proper supervision, completing all the required duties of the PIC without intervention and being signed off as such by the actual commander at the end of the flight.

Show me an airline in the UK today that implements such a training program or could care less how their F/Os gained the required hours to meet the requirements for ATPL issue! I've been in the industry for the relatively short time span of two years, had three full time commercial airline jobs in that time and am facing moving on to my fourth and not one of those airlines has any program in place or any interest in how I meet the requirements for an ATPL.

I feel you do a large number of us an injustice implying that we will 'come up with any means to log command time,when they are not actually in command'. Trust me, I've met the bad eggs out there, those who fudge the numbers, log non-existant hours, heck, I've met a guy who logged all his observation/jump seat flights as P2 hours in order to get a job.

I have never done such thing, or ever will. When I apply for a job which asks for the number of PIC/command hours I wouldn't dream of putting down any of my time in the right seat, PF or PM - that all goes in the P2 column.

Yet I'm still faced with the requirement of license issue, with airlines that couldn't care less but with a CAA who does it seems, based on going reports and experience, be offering an alternative method even though it contradict their own documentation.

What am I meant to do? Sit forever with a blue book, pious in my knowledge that I am sticking the letter of the law and not take advantage of the way out provided. Or, be pragmatic about the situation take the route that pretty much every other F/O out there is taking and take advantage of an alternative reading of the rules which is tacitly approved by the CAA? Because lets face it, short of hiring out a SEP and throwing money out the DV I'm not going to gain the required hours otherwise.
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