thanks alot PBL and paddy ,,well i am instrument rated but since the airblue incident there have been many questions which were laid down by the non aviation related ppl,i was watchn on television and this ex general manager radar controller was mentioning that he bursted the msa which led to the unfortunate incident but the dude was already executing a circle to land i guess,,so he was already within the area and probably familiar with the locality,,i dont want to speculate though,,but all this speculation before black box retrieval just for the sake of gettin high tv ratings is pathetic,,just needed some brushing up to do on this topic for myself,,,,