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Old 23rd Jul 2010, 01:17
  #78 (permalink)  
DFC
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
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IO540,

You seem to have totally missed the reason for having VOR, NDB, ILS and GPS not to mention airspeed indicators, altimeters etc

If I give a GPS to a 5 year old and they can't manage to navigate between A and B is that a problem with GPS or a problem with the ability of the 5 year old to operate an advanced electronic unit?

You say

I didn't say I can't. I said I wouldn't dream of even trying it due to the potential for trouble.
Where is the potential for trouble if one is a competent person when it comes to visual navigation?

I teach at all levels and I do include GPS as part of the PPL sylabus because it is a required element.

However, one can never get away from the fact that GPS is there to replicate what is already possible based on visual navigation just like VOR, ILS, NDB and DME.

Now most of those navaids were brought into use because when one flies in cloud one can no longer use visual navigation so we need the next best thing we can get to replace the information we are missing i.e. that we are going to miss the hill out to the left and the mast to the right without being so low that we clip that chimney below aka ILS.

The problem is that no matter what system is used - VOR, NDB, ILS, GPS, they all have some error even if it is very small. As someone who claims to be an engineering based person you must understand this basic principle.

Therefore you will also understand that all of the above are designed to replace the information that can be seen easily by the mark 1 eyeball when flying in visual met conditions in contact with the surface. Even the mark 1 eyeball gets more accurate as it gets closer to the runway and can beat any CAT3B ILS at deciding if the nosewheel is on the centerline or not.........provided that the pilot is skilled and competent.

If I fly over my house and look down to see that I am directly over my house then I am directly over my house. I do not have to take into acccount various RSS errors that occur in the system or atmospheric issues or thre latest sun flares.

So when navigating visually, why would any competent person with an up to date map have to rely on GPS (or any other aid) to tell them what they should already know?

Reference please... (for GPS usage under VFR)
You are very confused. Are you asking for a reference as to the use of GPS as a primary / sole information source for safe navigation or are you asking about flying VFR? the two are not automatically linked.

In order for a non-visual aid to be used for navigation it must be certified. The reference is the ANO. Forget GPS. If your VOR is not FM immune then it can not be relied upon for primary / sole source of navigation. That is becuase non-FM immune VORs are no longer certified as such. the same applies to non-approved GPS instalations and of course hand-hel GPS units.

Being very accurate and being certified are separate issues.

PS Don't slag off instructors too much. Some day one will stick round you lomg enough to teach you how to navigate without a crutch!!
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