Chug/Dervish,
I fear you are wasting your time and effort with the likes of JP and Caz! They seem quite incapable or unwilling to consider any facts or suggestions that disagree with their own assessment of the case; they won't, therefore, answer your questions, I'm afraid. Their assessments may well be correct but, as there was no CVR/ADR, we will never know with 'absolutely no doubt whatsoever'.