PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Does being white and middleclass an advantage in Corporate aviation?
Old 22nd May 2010, 16:31
  #34 (permalink)  
keithskye

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Join Date: Feb 2010
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Johns7022 is absolutely spot on.

Corporate aviation hiring practices -

1- The boss wants someone cheap, and if he has the kind of business where everyone he has in his company is cheap labor, I'll put money on it that he will be shopping price in his flight dept. The flight depts hire kids, make them pay for types, training contracts ect....

2- The boss hires people he likes. If he is the kind of guy that hires buddies and pals first over performance, then your likely to get the job offered is someone there knows you, likes you, can play golf, you have something in common with this guy, etc ect.. This the classic flight dept where everyone wonders how 'Joe' got this job flying a GIV with 1500 hours of flight time, oh yeah...he's a golf buddy....

3- The boss hires on performance - Very rare, but he actualy doesn't want to die in a plane crash...he probably won't pay for the best, but he will hire a guy to get the job done...most boss's have a number, so they will hire the right guy, but they will try to get him cheap, and someone that they like.. He get's a guy everyone universaly knows is decent...

4- The boss hires the best - Very rare...but when Donald Trump called Continental to get a guy to fly his 727, he hired away the most senior capt...if only most billionares were like him...
I actually was not invited back for a final interview with a very high paying G-V flight department because when I was asked to join the CEO, Chief Pilot and Director of Aviation for a round of golf, I had to pass because I did not play nor did I have any interest in playing. Both of the other candidates, who did go on and play golf with the management, got on with them. Many of you would be offended by this, but I was not, and still am not, as it became very obvious to me that my personality would not "click" with theirs and that I was just saving us all some aggravation in the future.

If your low time, an idiot, not very commited to your profession, you should go airline, or try to get a job where the hiring practice is more about who you know, go along, get along, team player kinda of social networking stuff..
Actually, you should pursue a career in some other industry!

If your a hotshot, you'll probably get a job, but depending on the type of boss you get, will depend on how you get paid...most of them want someone decent but don't want to pay for it....
True, but only if you network well enough to get the chance to prove that you're a "hotshot", and then also have the proper attitude, work ethic, and other character and personality traits that will endear you to the boss, your chief pilot/Captain and everyone else you have to work with in the flight department!

My current boss used to fit the profile described in #1 above, but now I'd say he definitely fits profile #3! I am in the process of hiring a Captain to replace my F/O in our 604, and it is now down to negotiating his contract (as well as mine)!

As I know many of you would be keen to learn the details, I'll go ahead and share them with you, as much as I can, anyway.

The F/O leaving: single (not married), hired with CPL, no type ratings, 3,300 hours, with a background flying Navajos early on and then a small mix of hours in a variety of turboprops, then about a year or so flying the ERJ-170/190. I took a chance on him based on those qualifications, plus his personality (good work ethic, respectful in all ways, well-spoken, well-dressed, good sense of humor and all-around nice guy). Sadly, although I liked him a lot and so did the boss, after two years flying with us, things were not working out quite as planned (I had hoped to have him flying as a Captain by now). We spent a LOT of money on training (we paid for his type rating at Flight Safety, where he also got his ATPL in the process) and the salary was reasonable. Oh, BTW, his ethnic background - Eastern European origin and raised in the Middle East, and multi-lingual.

The new pilot (Captain) coming onboard, if he gets a contract he can live with: married, no kids, ATPL, HS-125, DA-50, 7,900 hours of logged professional flying (he flies his own personal airplanes quite a lot, of which he owns two, and never logs any of it), background of strictly corporate flying, Chief Pilot of two flight departments, flying the Hawker 800 series and the Falcon 50. Big note here - he has only had two jobs (both as Chief Pilot) over the last 15 years - how many of us can say that in the corp. bizjet world? He is not typed in our aircraft but will be paying for his own rating. If he accepts the contract, then likely we'll finance the rating for him out of payroll deduction, but he's prepared to do it on his own if need be.

Myself? 14,000 hours, ATPL, B-737, CL-600, CL-604, G-1159 (Gulfstream II and III) and G-IV type ratings. I worked my buns off to get my first 500 hours, a CPL, Multi and IR, and then got a job with a VFR only operation flying single engine airplanes around. After I'd got 1200 hours, I flew light twins (single pilot IFR) for several years until I got 3500 hours (earning my ATPL with 2,000 hours in a Navajo), before going on to a regional turboprop carrier, where I flew for a couple of years (very heavy IFR - actual IMC - flying). I then realized that airline flying was not my cup of tea and managed to network enough (banged on a huge number of doors - in person!) that I finally got that first corp job flying in the right seat of a Lear 35. That job also included doing all the Jepps, washing and waxing the aircraft every week, and mopping and polishing the hangar floor every week as well! I was happy to do that.

After accumulating about 5,500 hours time, I finally got my shot at a Captain's seat in a Challenger, but I had to pay for my type rating first! I made the commitment, flew the airplane a lot, and over time developed a reputation for being a very good stick with very strong instrument skills and a knack for minimizing maintenance and direct operating costs. My reputation in the Challenger helped me break into the Gulfstream ranks, where my next two employers happily paid for my type ratings. I flew the G-II, G-IISP, G-IIB, G-III (DC and AC), and the G-IV and G-IVSP. While flying those airplanes, I managed to earn positions as Senior Captain, company instructor and also Director of Operations and Chief Pilot. Two years ago, I left flying the G-IV to take the position I have now, Chief Pilot and Captain on a Challenger 604. Today, I have over 8,000 hours of command time spread between the Challenger and Gulfstream series of airplanes, with a great deal of over-water, international flying, as well as a good deal of management experience.

With my background, do you think it would be easy for me to get a job today if I were looking? Sadly, no. I have "tested" the waters on several job openings posted on various sites these past few months, just to see what might be had, and I have not been offered a single job, no matter how qualified I am for them. Two companies were interested enough to take the time to actually write me and let me know that I was not as qualified as some of the candidates they were interviewing. I am sharing this with all of you so that you know that it really is that competitive out there.

As for the orginal question posted here, I'll respond as follows:

There are many reasons for the demographic mix of pilots you see out there, and they include cultural as well as financial factors. I find it interesting that the cultural aspect has not been brought up, but the fact is, if certain types of technologically and financially challenging endeavors (playing with cars, airplanes, etc.) are not part of one's every-day culture, and people are not exposed to those kinds of things as a child, it is considerably less likely to find young men and women with an interest in Aviation at an early enough age to make the commitment and take the necessary steps to pursue a career in this field, which as we've all seen is very competitive to begin with. I have seen this factor in every activity you can think of which demands a certain level of financial investment as well as technical skill.

I know that in America, for instance, growing up as a kid, I was always exposed to, and in fact encouraged to have an interest in, airplanes, boats and cars. I was flying model rockets and airplanes that I built from kits, when I was only 12 years old (and I earned the money for that all on my own by doing yardwork and other odd jobs for people throughout my neighborhood). My parents did not contribute one penny to my hobbies, but they did take me to airshows and to car shows, and I managed to sneak off to to the coast once in awhile to see sailing regattas and the like. I left home when I turned 18, and I paid for my university education and I also paid for every penny of my flight training, by working many different jobs at the same time while going to school and learning to fly and earn that first 500 hours of flight time.

It's never been easy, not by a long shot, and I for one have no sympathy for the young ones here who seem to think that they are owed a job or certain benefits or salary when they have little to offer really. Work 3 or 4 jobs all at once and pay for all of your schooling, flight training and at least one type rating in a jet, and THEN come and talk to me about how unfair the job market is.

I mentored a young man over the past several years who learned to fly at Biggin Hill initially, earning his UK PPL there. He then went on to America, where he earned his FAA CPL, CFI, CFII, and ATPL, while working as flight instructor and going to school at a local Univ on a student visa. He then came back to the UK when his visa ran out and started networking like crazy and finally, after nearly two years, managed to get on with a heavy jet carrier a couple of years ago. Today he is typed in several heavy jets and is flying all over the world and making a very comfortable salary. It took him over 15 years to achieve what he has. You can achieve what you want in this business, but except for the very lucky few, the only way to get there is by hard work, a great deal of networking, and a very good attitude, because potential employers do see that and do react to that. There are no shortcuts in this business.

I hadn't intended to go on like this, and I'm sorry if I got a bit carried away!

Best of luck to all of you that are looking!
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