By the way 421C have you flown in the States? Do you think there is anything better about the service they provide to all airspace users in the US than here?
Yes I have. Of course just about everything in the USA is better. I totally agree with you about aviation infrastructure and services being provided as a public good, part of the transportation network of the country. However, I tend to find that the vast differences between the US and Europe are at their narrowest
when you are actually in the air. In Europe, the misery is the overall cost and regulation and access to airports etc. Once you have paid for your plane, and fuel, and found airports at either end you can use, and done whatever PPR nonsense you have to, and accounting for the fees and handling costs, and having filed an IFR FPL through IFPS
and are actually flying IFR - then I think the system works rather well in Europe, and ATC services are rather good.
I also dont agree that GA pays nothing for the reasons previously set out and which you have disregarded. I tell you what, all the duty that GA pays on Avgas should be directly subrogated to NATS since they are the only quasi government service provider that is able to provide a service, I suspect all of a sudden NATS might take a different view.
The problem isn't that I've disregarded it. The problem is that the entire political system has disregarded it. Fuel taxes are not hypothecated to pay for GA services. They are levied by EU law. There is, however, an established system by which enroute ATC services are paid for - the Eurocontrol charging system (by the way, some of us pay
both the fuel duty and eurocontrol charges...). The challenge we have is not to get more for free (that is a fantasy), but to avoid paying more than we currently do. The airlines are constantly exerting political pressure that charges should recover more from GA. The best argument against that is "beneficiary pays"...ie. the airlines benefit from the cost of CAS and ATC, so they should pay. Sub-2t users get a free ride on the system. I think this is right and proper. Good luck in arguing this should be extended to providing OCAS IFR coverage for all, seamless integrated with airways control to let you pop-in and pop-out to your hearts content. It's more fantasty.
But, ultimately, I don't understand what you and IO are specifically complaining about? There are "complaints" in this thread that feel to me as if they misrepresent how the system works; to portray its normal and sensible workings, that a competent user should predictably expect, as "tricks" or mystifying anomalies.
That is my main point in this thread.
Look at the substance of the 'complaints':
- bloke files OCAS beyond the CI CTZ and gets handed over to London Info
- bloke get a "clearance to destination" from Split to Shoreham on a route terminating OCAS for the last 50nm
- bloke files a route leaving CAS at the UK FIR boundary and get handed over to London Info
....where exactly is the 'problem' some posters are getting worked up about?
brgds
421C