Fire left, If you consider teaching deserving kids to fly a twin and getting valid real life multi time, so they can get a good flying job, to be work, then we will have to disagree, and by the way they get paid a living wage whilst doing same instead of paying the dual rate for the aircraft which in the case of a 421 can be as high as $1500 per hour, its called "giving somthing back", I realise this concept in the "Me Me " age we live in may be hard for some to grasp, also flying "Hope Air and Angel Flight" can hardly be considered work! Nor can flying a little airplane upside down once a week be clasified as "work", nor landing in a lake to drown some worms be considered "work", nor can be helping Air Cadets come under the heading of "work", but its obvious that we are on the other end of the teter toter when it comes to this stuff! A little story before I go, just had a beer with a 380 F/O who turned up twenty years ago at our outfit , with his single mum, he having quit in grade nine and was only one step ahead of the police, he now makes more money than any AC /WJ pilot and in turn is "giving back". As for bankrupting the pension, I can only hope I can live as long as my parents, come from stock with a history of longevity,{mind you they most likely lived a far more healthy life stlye!} Now watch as I keel over during my medical today! May you have as much fun in your future a my wife and I do in our dotage, the view from the outside looking in at the airlines doesnt seem nearly as much fun as it once was, and I doubt that regardless of the merits of this discussion that the atmosphere within the ranks of AC will improve as a result of this dispute, Regards Clunck.