mjbow
All airline served airports have a minimum of Class E starting at 700ft AGL rotorblades and if no IFR clearance has been given, then by definition the flight is VFR while climbing out. Do you understand this?
FAA JO 7110-65S - US ATS Rules Manual
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/m...r/7110.65S.pdf
4-3-9. VFR RELEASE OF IFR DEPARTURE
When an aircraft which has filed an IFR flight plan requests a VFR departure through a terminal facility, FSS, or air/ground communications station:
a. After obtaining, if necessary, approval from the facility/sector responsible for issuing the IFR clearance, you may authorize an IFR flight planned aircraft to depart VFR. Inform the pilot of the proper frequency and, if appropriate, where or when to contact the facility responsible for issuing the clearance.
PHRASEOLOGY VFR DEPARTURE AUTHORIZED. CONTACT (facility) ON (frequency) AT (location or time if required) FOR CLEARANCE.
b. If the facility/sector responsible for issuing the clearance is unable to issue a clearance, inform the pilot, and suggest that the delay be taken on the ground. If the pilot insists upon taking off VFR and obtaining an IFR clearance in the air, inform the facility/sector holding the flight plan of the pilot's intentions and, if possible, the VFR departure time.
Do you understand the
actual system in the US?
If an IFR clearance is not immediately available, an aircraft can depart VFR and climb up to the base of Class A, before picking up their IFR clearance. All in Class E!
If an IFR clearance is not immediately available, then there is a conflicting IFR aircraft. That is why ATS WILL
suggest a delay on the ground. If the pilot decides to go VFR, then they are reliant on ‘see and avoid’ to avoid collision. Which is exactly as the professionals on these threads are suggesting, and why the following limitations are within the FSIMS:-
Flight Standards Information Management System
12_002_005
OpSpec C077 Subparagraph c(3). This subparagraph contains a requirement to obtain an IFR clearance no farther than 50 nautical miles from the departure airport. However, it is recognized that this procedure may not be practical in all situations. If a greater distance is necessary, the foreign air carrier may apply for a nonstandard paragraph. If OpSpec B051 is issued for VFR en route operations, then for propeller driven aircraft, except for certain en route VFR provisions in part 93, SFAR 50–2, or SFAR 71, the flightcrew may depart VFR under the provision of OpSpec C077 subparagraph c, and the requirement to obtain an IFR clearance en route does not apply.
F. Terminal Departure IFR Requirements in Subparagraph d. If ATC clears the flight, it is acceptable to execute a VMC takeoff and climb to a specified point in the clearance as part of an IFR clearance. However, the foreign air carrier must ensure that the obstacle performance requirements are met. Further, the flight must not depart on a VFR flight plan if the capability to go on an IFR flight plan is evident.
Bare in mind also that in G, pilots can select
an alternate track that de-conflicts with the other aircraft. If the Class E base is low [belowA100], then ATC will often not have any MSAW/LSALT options if off track, when an IFR clearance in E becomes ‘necessary’ in to CTA.
G. Subparagraph e. Subparagraph e provides special limitations and provisions for all VFR operations. This subparagraph is applicable to all the provisions and limitations of OpSpec C077.
1) Subparagraph e(1). In order for the foreign air carrier to conduct VFR operations under OpSpec C077, they must have in place either a procedure or program that can identify obstacles and the airport obstacle data. Further, they must ensure that the flightcrew use that information. The POI shall request documentation from the foreign air carrier that this program is in place and that the air carrier’s CAA has approved VFR terminal operations.
2) OpSpec C077, Subparagraph e(2). Although each subparagraph has specific details and minimums regarding VFR, the requirement for sufficient seeing conditions to identify and avoid obstacles is required for all VFR operations.
Your previous post continues the fine tradition of NAStronaut misinformation.