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Old 20th Apr 2010, 20:52
  #465 (permalink)  
Chimbu chuckles

Grandpa Aerotart
 
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Chimbu,
Was it you who said they operated widely internationally, and never operated in other then A, B(?)C. Have a look at the extract from the Indian AIP below.

The highest class of airspace in India is D, and that is TMAs.
Yes I said that and I am happy to admit I was wrong. I was going to wait until I operated up to DXB-LHR last weekend and pour over the enroute charts but that aint happening for obvious reasons - so I decided to have a read of the Indian AIP earlier today - I must be precedent or sumfink?

Yup India has only D,F and G airspace - but as with all good stories it just aint that simple - some Indian AIP excerpts;

ENR 1.1 General Rules

2. Flights on ATS routes

2.1. Introduction 2.1.1.

Area of responsibility for the control of flights on ATS routes and the units providing this service are shown in subsection ENR 2.1.

2.1.2. Separation is based on- 2.1.2.1. Estimated and/or actual times over reporting points

2.1.2.2. Radar identity

2.1.3. As position reports are most commonly used it is important for estimates to be revised and notified to ACC, if more than 3 minutes in error.

2.1.4. The pilot-in-command shall maintain a continuous listening watch on the appropriate air/ground frequency.

2.1.5. While operating in controlled airspace, only direct controller-pilot communication is permitted. Radio-telephony communication through interpreter shall not be permitted.
ENR 1.2 VFR

3. VFR flights shall not be operated between sunset and sunrise, except when exempted by air traffic control for local flights* and such training flights of flying club aircraft as may be cleared by air traffic control. *Local flight is a flight wholly conducted in the immediate vicinity of an aerodrome (Aircraft Manual (India), Volume I, page 113, Schedule IV, Rules of the air)

4.VFR flights shall not be operated-
4.1. Above FL50 (typo - do they mean 5000' or 50000'? Surely if the later it would be FL500)
4.2. At transonic and supersonic speeds
4.3. more than 100NM seaward from the shoreline within controlled airspace
ENR 1.10 Flight Planning and Notification

4. Local/Training flights

4.1. For local training or test flights conducted by scheduled/non-scheduled operators, a flight plan shall be submitted as laid down in para 3 above.

4.2. For training flights conducted by flying clubs within aerodrome traffic zone, a flight plan may be submitted on telephone giving the following information:
i) Aircraft Identification
ii) Flight rules
iii) Name of pilots and trainees if any
iv) Number of persons on board
v) Duration of flight
vi) Endurance

Note - On aerodromes where no Aerodrome Traffic zone is established or no airspace has been reserved for local flying, a circular area of radius 5NM, centered at the Aerodrome reference point and vertical limits up to 3000Ft AGL shall be treated as the vicinity of Aerodrome for VFR flights.

4.3. Flight plans for cross-country flights conducted by flying club aircraft and general aviation aircraft from airfields where ATS reporting office does not exist, shall be submitted to the FIC on phone giving the information as specified in para 4.2 above.
Airspace within ATS route segment is classified as ‘F’.

• Airspace outside ATS route segment and controlled airspace is classified as ‘G’.

• Airspace within controlled airspace is classified as ‘D’.
Mumbai Airspace

FL460 / FL070 up to 100NM
FL460 / FL150 between 100NM to 150NM
FL460 / FL200 beyond 150NM

Airspace is Classified as 'D'
Bloody big TMA's

Every decent size city across the country has similar 'TMA' not just Mumbai - and NO ONE moves without a flight plan and full reporting.

When I cross India its mostly at night (no VFR allowed at night) and always on the airways system obviously (Class F and D) above FL300. A good % of the time on the northern route we use (L301) we are under positive radar control but still required to report at various places. In the southern route to Jeddah we are further than 100nm from the coast (except for a very brief period near Trivandrum) so no VFR traffic.

ICAO airspace.

Class D: Operations may be conducted under IFR, SVFR, or VFR. All flights are subject to ATC clearance. Aircraft operating under IFR and SVFR are separated from each other, and are given traffic information in respect of VFR flights. Flights operating under VFR are given traffic information in respect of all other flights.

Class F: Operations may be conducted under IFR or VFR. ATC separation will be provided, so far as practical, to aircraft operating under IFR. Traffic Information may be given as far as is practical in respect of other flights.
In my defence from the point of view of a pilot crossing the Indian FIR above FL300 it does look, sound and feel like (horribly dysfunctional) Class C. Its a disgrace that it isn't.

Given the highly constrained nature of VFR GA in India and incredibly small numbers of aircraft outside a couple of aviation colleges producing airline cadets any airspace based MAC potential comparisons is mute. In a previous life I flew more 'domestic' sectors in India and Pakistan than I care to remember (Corporate jet) and the ONLY GA aircraft I ever saw in India was a beat up old B1900 that came and went while I was on the ground at Bubeneshwar for several hours and Mig17s doing circuits at Quetta while I was sat on the ground there one day for 4 hrs. The only thing you ever see or hear on the airways is other Boeings/Airbus and the odd Tupolev. I have seen a Mig 21 over Syria and heard plenty of RAF and USAF fast jets over Iraq when we first started flying that route a couple of years ago - but they were all below FL200 where we were not allowed. Never anything like that over India - they have HUGE restricted airspace over central India so I guess they play in there mostly.

You're in Class D LONG before you get to TOPD inbound to Mumbai et al and in Class D all the way down.

Even that, as imperfect as it is, is its better than Class E in a country where there is LOTS of VFR GA activity.

Hey if ya wanna have Class D around Broome to FL460/150nm and everyone, VFR included, on flight plans/full reporting I am sure Capn Bloggs won't complain

Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 20th Apr 2010 at 21:16.
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