Vorticey, If you start at the beginning of the thread you will see I have been talking about an aircraft rolling into a turn - not exactly a manoeuvre carried out in the hover is it? You have clearly misread the part in the post you quote where I point out that a yaw input in forward flight (without moving the cyclic or collective) produces a roll in the SAME direction - this is the secondary effect of yaw. I have only demonstrated effects of controls a few thousand times but I seem to remember that the whole point was NOT to mask the secondary and tertiary effects of moving a control in isolation.