NAS rears its head again

[peuce]

LEADSLED,

In the old days, Dick used to call the "non believers" luddites. Now we have a new name:

But, as I have said several times, the final outcome will be determined by how successful the efforts by the troglodyte lobby

Perhaps to dispell the Nastronaut myth that all Australia aviators and Controllers are just change averse, here are some PPRUNE quotes from a few years back. Note what they are talking about is SURVEILLLANCE Class E:

CrocDundee
4th August 2007, 22:00
Friedrichshafen (EDNY) and also St. Gallen Airport (LSZR) are very close to each other at the opposite shores at Lake Constance, southern Germany and north eastern Switzerland. Both Airports are growing, especially the IFR traffic. Unfortunately the approach airspace around the two CTR's is classified to E. Means a holy bunch of unknown VFR movements, especially on weekends. Numerous encounters of IFR-VFR almost every day... and obviously the hell for an APP ATCO to vector acft for approach thru all this VFR hell... if in any way it is somehow possible... just pure luck nothing serious did happen til today! And the German authority is not willing to change the airspace classification...!!!

Do we really need another accident in order they finally change this airspace classification?


NorthSouth
6th August 2007, 18:30
What separation do you try to apply between your IFR traffic and unknown VFRs in Class E? In the UK there's no requirement for separation, only provision of traffic information. Then again there's very little Class E left in the UK and a substantial chunk of it was re-classified as Class D a couple of years ago as a result of an airprox between a 737 and a microlight.


CrocDundee
6th August 2007, 20:45

There's as well no requirement for applying any separation. IFR arrivals and departures are either being vectored just around the visible VFRs on screen (sometimes that's just a nice try...), or simply to let them fly own nav on SID or STAR (procedural arrival). Of course, trf info will be provided as long as possible. And last but not least: The app atco needs a hard shell! ...and the flight crews good luck!
As I said before, there were numerous reported airproxes, some of them hottest category, and the authority still doin nothing against it.

Bring back Tridents
7th October 2007, 17:00
Sorry for being late to this discussion. Glasgow and Edinburgh have the same problem in the Scottish TMA with the Class E between them . It makes for some interesting moments on Glasgow Radar as several usually launch southwards from Cumbernauld without talking to approach. And then there's Mr Microlight Thankfully something's being done to change the classification to D.