Forkie thats at MTOW. So with most of the stuff out of the aircraft about 150 metres is good for TO too so you can go home. For flat sea level strips around 250 metres is a practical minimum length with no obstacles. Thats with an old standard wing coming and going at around 50 kts lightly loaded. Real sharp blokes might do better with stol gear especially if they know the strip real well. Even then anyone talking under 200 metres has most likely had a few beers! Yes Chuck i think we should have a positive rate of climb so Kamina and Nadinumu are out.