PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Near midair over SFO
View Single Post
Old 7th Apr 2010, 19:39
  #131 (permalink)  
Robert Campbell
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sonoma, CA, USA
Age: 79
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Comm at SFO

I just listened to the audio again. The first reply is the Captain (male voice)
all of the rest were from the FO (female voice)

I've annotated whether it's Captain of FO who is speaking.

Clearly, the SFO controller explained the situation to UA889. The FO just had her head inside.

In the transcript, SFO tower is the tower controller. UA889 is the Boeing 777 departing San Francisco for Beijing and 9870E is the Cessna 182, which was flying north to south along highway 101.
11:09:28
9870E: San Francisco Tower 9870 Echo 1.6 [indicating he’s at 1,600 feet]
11:09:33
SFO Tower: 8270 Echo San Francisco tower, roger keep Highway 101 off to your left side
11:09:33
9870E: 70 Echo
11:10:03
SFO Tower: United 889 28 Left Heavy Position and hold
11:10:06
UA889: Position and hold 28 Left, United 889 (Captain)
11:11:41
SFO Tower: United 889 Heavy Winds 090 at 6, Runway 28 Left Clear for takeoff.
11:11:41
UA889: Clear for takeoff 28 Left United, uh Triple 889 (FO) Thinking she has a cute reply for three 8s, then realizing her error

11:13:44
SFO Tower: 70 Echo, Traffic off the departure end climbing out of 500 heavy triple 7.
11:13:49
9870E: 70 Echo is in sight
11:13:51
SFO Tower: Maintain visual separate, pass behind that aircraft
11:13:55
9870E: 70 Echo, Pass behind him
11:13:57
UA889: Is that Traffic for 889? (FO) hasn't been listening
11:13:59
SFO Tower: Just ahead and to your right, has you in sight, Cessna one-thousand 500, they’re maintaining visual separation
11:14:05
UA889: [Unintelligible] (FO)
11:14:07
SFO Tower: 889 Heavy traffic no factor, Contact Norcal Departure
11:14:10
UA889: OK, That set off a TCAS that was….that (FO) rattled and embarrassed
11:14:18
UA889: We need to talk. (FO) Saving face
11:14:21
SFO Tower: Roger.

I will say that if I had been flying the Cessna, I would have turned left sooner.

Each airport is unique. SFO started out as Mills field with one dirt runway. In the 70s (before TCAs) general aviation used the field. We parked at Butler Aviation.

I was involved in a program promoting close in air transport for faster city center to city center connections. We were flying Britten Norman Islanders and Trilanders, Pilatus Porters and Helio Couriers off the wide ramp area near Butler. When landing, we'd come in low along the coast pass the Flying Tigers hangar and Coast Guard Station and then land on the last few hundred feet of 28 left or right.

We also landed at Candlestick Park, The Cow Palace, Crissy Field, Golden Gate Fields and Cal Expo in Sacramento.

Microwave approach systems were on the horizon permitting steeper, curved approaches. (We're still waiting, though something similar is now available using GPS)

We had a letter of agreement with SFO Tower permitting our non-standard ops. VFR ops were permitted at that time and we would request a "standard
ramp departure" When cleared, we'd just take off from the ramp and head for highway 101.

Sadly, the general public didn't want airplanes anywhere close to them, and the TCA was created. STOLAIR became Westair Commuter, and I ended up flying night cargo out of the Tigers Hangar in DC-3s for an airline called Zoom Zoom (later Tranwest Air Express).

The attitude of cooperation between SFO Tower and General Aviation has remained.

Walt Smith, the SFO Tower chief, taught an aviation ground school at Santa Rosa Junior College in the early 90s in addition to running the Santa Rosa Airport tower which handled GA primarily, and commuters from time to time. We all called him "Uncle Walt".

SFO is in a rather different position than most major airports. It's surrounded by water and mountains and other airports. Look at the SFO VFR Terminal Area Chart. That is one mixed up wedding cake.

The terrain is spectacular. On clear days, many of the airliners departing on the 1L or R request the bay tour so that the pax can see the Golden Gate Bridge. Airliners above 3500'; GA below 3000'

Ten years ago there was a proposal to expand SFO with another runway in San Francisco Bay since the existing runways are too close together to permit parallel approaches and takeoffs. I made a lot of money from competing engineering firms which were submitting proposals. All the time I was over SFO shooting oblique and vertical photos, I knew that the expansion would never happen.

First, the "Save the Bay" organizations were dead against the idea. Second, the economy was a little bit more shaky than many wanted to admit, and third, think of the taxi time involved in getting to or from a 28 Very Right a mile out in the bay.

So, in all these years of airlines and GA working together without incident, we have a graduate from a pilot mill (objection - speculation), based in SF, come apart because her little box lit up.

There used to be a program called "Fly a Controller". When I was flying the Otis Spunkmeyer DC-3, we took several OAK controllers for rides (the idea was to bring back the "glorious" days of air travel. The cockpit door was always open, and we took requests. If a passenger wanted to see their house, we'd do everything we could to oblige.)

On one of the flights, I had two OAK controllers on board, and they wanted to fly the 101 corridor past SFO. They wanted to see how it worked. I got a Class B 101 from Bay (now NORCAL) and we proceeded at 1500 ft. Traffic was slow at SFO and the controllers on board got to have good conversation
with their comrades from across the bay as we flew past SFO down the Peninsula to San Carlos (about 8 miles southwest of SFO where we crossed the bay back to Oakland.

The system works well and has for many years.

Last edited by Robert Campbell; 7th Apr 2010 at 22:31. Reason: Name correction
Robert Campbell is offline