Originally Posted by slamer
What we call an FE the Americans call a SO
What we call an SO the Americans call a cruise pilot
Maybe thats where the confusion lays
Originally Posted by JW111
Well, when I flew in the USA, we had FEs AND SOs. The FEs were professional flight engineers and the SOs were second officer pilots peforming at the FE's panel while waiting to get into the right hand seat.
Yes, that's what I meant. We had "S/O's" as well, who managed the panel at the back until we sold our DC8's, B727's, L1011's a very long time ago now and everybody got a window seat and we flew long-haul overseas with just two pilots on the B767 for the long time until the notions of "augment pilot", and "cruise relief pilot" were introduced in Canada and which were fought tooth-and-nail against by one carrier - another thread for another day. The CRP's are top-of-climb to top-of-descent certified and the Augment pilot is a qualified First Officer permitted to takeoff and land the aircraft; we use just one captain on all long-haul; some carriers use dual crews.
Originally Posted by blah blah blah
What sort of screwed up airline only lets the Skipper call an abort? Never come across that one before.
Originally Posted by blueloo
Not getting confused with - anyone can CALL the abort....but ONLY the Captain makes the decision on whether to abort or not.
Originally Posted by minimum_wage
For your own accuracy, I fly for Air NZ so I should know. I'm not a Captain and I have called a reject before.
Originally Posted by lomapaseo
I always thought that it was important for only the two guys at the controls to know who who calls the abort and unimportant/ambigous to anybody else
Interesting comments on what we probably thought was a pretty settled maneuver.
For clarification....
For me, the terminology of "
calling" a reject means that the
decision has been made to reject the takeoff and as such is a command not merely an alert by a crew member. In other words, it doesn't just mean that a crew member is calling out a fault
which may require a reject - "
calling" means "commanding" a reject, so perhaps that is one area of confusion and hopefully this will sort it out.
Obviously it is paramount that all crew members
call out any fault but at the airline I retired from the actual decision to reject and carry out the actions of a rejected takeoff is the skipper's alone.
So
minimum_wage and
blah blah blah, does disagreement with the view that only the captain can reject a takeoff
mean that in some carriers (ANZ?), the First Officer is
permitted by SOPs to make the decision to reject the takeoff and then carry out the reject actions while the skipper performs the PM role? Does this obtain even if the F/O happens to be the PM on the takeoff? In other words, can the F/O reject a takeoff under all circumstances or just when he-she is the PF? In such a case, at which point does the captain take command of the situation?
Other questions arise but perhaps this is all a confusion of terms and not a confusion of actual duties and responsibilities.
I think we would all agree that regardless of how this most serious of all emergency actions is conducted, that everybody in the cockpit must understand for each takeoff, who will
always do the reject, how it is to be done and what the actions for each, after stopping, will be, again, for each takeoff. For me, the SOP that keeps it the same for all takeoffs whereby only the skipper, after hearing
verbal calls regarding aircraft/system faults from other crew members, can actually decide to reject the takeoff and actually perform the actions of rejecting the takeoff, is the safest SOP which ensures that everyone knows who is doing what and when and knows where to look for command direction.