al446 lets start with the opening line you have absolutely no connection with BALPA now i am assuming you have no connection with Jet2 so in that case what do you have a connection to ?? As you have some very knowledgable union orientated responses and i would say are not sitting on the fence in this debate. i would like to know why ? Who ? And motives ?
The reason i asked about the BALPA management. The airline industry is facing its toughest time and employees are taking pay cuts, some captains are being returned to the right seat in some companies and therefore restricting the promotion of F/O's to Captaincy. Therefore by default the F/O does not get the salary rise they may well have q.e.d a pay cut. For the head or senior management of a representing body to take a pay rise in these times i would find just a little crass. That was why the question was asked. Now i am sure they deliver value for money but so do all the members who pay their monthly subs and those members currently taking a pay cut to watch those representing them arrive at a meeting knowing the senior management of that union took a pay rise for me would be a deal breaker....
The statement "going to the wall" was a maybe a little overdone, how about a company that is struggling as Excel did. Would the union offer a reduced set of terms and conditions for a set period to try and ease the company through that period. I have always thought that in the current climate when jobs in the UK are not clogging up the "Situations Vacant" in Flight International that 80% of salary is better than 100% of nothing and the nothing arose due to employee inflexibility prompted by a tough strong union negotiating position that trys to keep T's and C's fixed. That personally worries me. As i am sure most of the people who work at Jet2 are prepared to show a large wedge of discretionary flexibility if it were required on a large scale to keep the good ship flying the way it does. Whether that stance would be supported by a union ? This is the point that my uncertainty about the representing body advising the BALPA backed Crew council would worry me.
I would never suggest that unions can do magic or fire silver bullets but nor should they puport to do so to the more naive or less experienced members who are voting on this matter need a clear picture.
"I do find it sort of funny that the best the right wingers can do these days is to use images of the 60s & 70s" at what point did i or any of my colleagues become a right winger when debating the relevance of a union., this is an apolitical issue.
"Please remember we are a long way from the 'bad old days' of perpetual strikes on Merseyside" you stated however if you remember you also stated in your first post on this forum you that industrial action was an option in the 3rd paragraph of your opening gambit ??? So strike is an option or it isnt ? As for airline pilots striking, on the front of my license it states "Professional" and personally i would continue acting in such a fashion and no i am neither Right wing nor left wing. Seems you have a contradiction in your sequential posts.
"I cannot answer this as I have absolutely NO connection with BALPA, a trawl of my previous posts will show that I have long held the view that they should be subsumed into Unite, but I will make some general observations on your query"
My final point and i shall make isn't Unite the shower that's trying to take British Airways cabin crew down a dark alley and doing untold damage to British Airways long term profitibility with court cases that are lost before you even step onto the court steps?
re
British Airways, Union Hold Talks to Avert Strike (Update1) - BusinessWeek
So personally if BALPA are voted in the last thing i would ever want them to do would be to amalgamate with a more radical union such as Unite. So Mr/Mrs/Miss i appreciate that you are trying to help us all along in our decisions to vote and some of the information has been useful. However the terminology has for me an undertone of confrontation and "us and them" politics and maybe in times of richer pickings that may have its place. However in the current economic climate confrontation does not build strong airlines. Can someone with BALPA links please comment on what will be offered as part of the BALPA package for the 50 odd quid a month. I do agree with some fo your points that that the vailidty maybe a good working knowledge of employment law in negotiating apart from that i am not seeing a lot. Convince me ...