PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Mid-Air Collision over Southern Germany (merged)
Old 5th Jul 2002, 17:07
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Martin A
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Thought I wpould take a look back at this later. Glad I did. Normal USSr transponder does not show on TCAS (many hours on LHR to NRT confirms this!) ANY mode A transponder shows on TCAS. If mode C available, then TA and RA available to a TCAS equiped aircraft. If target has TCAS, thne co-ordinated manoeuvres are possible Hence all that TA only when you go engine out, it lets you look at TCAS targets, but the TCAS equiped other aircraft now knows that you will not manoeuvre, i.e you are in a sort of listen only mode.
as to the ATC, the bandboxing has gone on for years, the increase in separation due to equipment limitations has also gone on for years and is quite normal and acceptable. What happened is what always seems to happen in the middle of the night. Only two blips on the tube and you just know they are going to meet, usually witha few thousand or so between them, but it really isa case of S**s law applying whe you least expect it. As to not noticing what was happening, possibly so, but bear in mind that with a near head on cross, 5 minutes before the crosss, the aircraft would have been about 80nm miles apart. Even at 1 minute it was around 15 or 16 miles, not overly generous, but not a hit. From the little I saw, they were on near head on crossing tracks, so with very little difference in timing, they could have passed harmlessly 7nm apart. That would have been hard to tell at 80nm, but probably a bit more certain at say 20 to 30. From my own experience (a long time ago !) one would try not to climb or descend cruising aircraft at altitude, mainly because the option of climb may not be available. If you could keep everyone in level flight it would seem to be a better service.
This has indications of a combination of technical and human factors which will not be half as easy to solve as we may think.
As to TCAS manoeuvres, they are only vertical, bearing accuracy is low (+/- 5 degrees), but with refresh rates better than ATC radar. All to be done in vertical no GPWS pull ups, as you normally only need about 3 to 400 ft change of relative flight path. Turns not always a good idea. A 747-400 tried this at near maximum altitude, lost a couple of thousand ft in in over enthusiatic attempt and did not help anyones adrenalin level ! With the bearing inaccuracy, you could actually turn into the traffic. Possibly OK if you also keep the VSI where it should be whilst doing it, i.e. follow TCAS basic but add lateral. As someone said though, lateral is hard to achieve in a short time with risk of control problems at near max altitude, vertical much better.
Moral, stick to TCAS manoeuvres as they are published now. Maybe they will change maybe not.
As to what was happeing in the control room, maybe someone familiar with the set up in ZRH can speak, but with all respect to my fellow pilots, unless you have been there (working or with a lot of familiarity of an ATC unit) it is difficult to comment in specific terms as to what and how things should be done in a particular unit at a particular time. What was happening as described earlier seems quite reasonablt to me, no different than ony other unit operating at those kind of traffic levels.

Regards
MArtin A
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