remoak - you are completely missing the point. If people had listened to your argument we would still have people in the poor house like Oliver Twist, asking for more whilst a handful of people gorged themselves on the takings. What unions do is challenge the status quo and oppose the unscrupulous and amoral thinking patterns of shameful management. They cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but they can define the parameters in which pay negotiations occur. Love them or hate them, unions have changed the face of the western world and we no longer have a society with a few disgustingly rich and miillions obscenely poor. Our managers would love a return to that period on history - my aim is to prevent that ever happening again. If you want to be a jellyfish floating in the ocean at the whim of the tide, that is up to you. I accept the oceans exist but also know I have the power to swim against the currents.