PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Pax Comment - Help Please from Boeing Drivers
Old 31st Jan 2010, 10:55
  #54 (permalink)  
Pilot Pete
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Egcc
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Right.

Firstly, as others have said, don't worry about it. And certainly don't apologise. You are EXTREMELY inexperienced (as we all were once). An 1800m strip (5900ft) is short for a 738. My operator sets a restriction of 6000' or more for F/Os (let's not have a debate about the rights and wrongs of that), but the fact they put that restriction in the manuals means that the pilot management consider it to be 'more challenging' shall we say? I have just done a calculation using our landing performance software for an 1800m runway with a 0.5% upslope for one of our 738s (without the short field performance package) at MLW (65250kg). On a 'standard' day using flap 40, using inflight performance (forgetting about dispatch requirements), autobrake 3 has an LDR of 1626m, unfactored. Max autobrake has an LDR of 1167m, again unfactored. So do pilots still think his choice of max autobrake was inappropriate? You really need to know the type to comment because I have flown 75/767 too and never got anywhere max auto, but remember they have many more wheels and the brake settings have different deceleration rates (3 on a 73 feels like less than 2 on a 75).

An upslope adds to the challenge, as does a 15kt crosswind! You say it was at night, so other factors also add to the challenge; lighting, weather, approach you flew etc etc.

Add that little lot up and I would say that for someone with 350hrs on type you were perhaps (with all due respect) closer to your available capacity limit than perhaps the guy in the other seat would have been.

It is always better to consolidate your flying after initial line training by trying to build consistency, which is easier to achieve on less challenging approaches/ runways. I would advise speaking with your captain during the preflight briefing and mention that you are trying to build some consistency with landings and perhaps consider the factors at your home base, which may mean that another sector would be more appropraite in that consolidation. Perhaps pick the home base for a landing when conditions are more favourable, say no crosswind to deal with, in daytime and good visibility. That way you can crack the nut and build up to more challenging conditions rather than jump straight in at the deep end.

For those offering advice who do not fly the type I would say be careful, because the advice about 'chopping thrust' is not something that should be applied to a 737, at any height, let alone at 50'. I train on Classic and -NG and the usual problem that we encounter with inconsistent landings during type training is with de-stabilising the approach in the last few hundred feet. What do I mean by that? Usually an inappropriate power setting for the configuration (slightly too much or slightly too little). This leads to a slight speed excursion and usually coupled to this a slight glideslope deviation (as the scan breaks down trying to set the power, just as the glide is getting increasingly sensitive) and a subsequent correction, usually by too much in the case of power setting. This then leads to the visual transition being slightly less than optimal, with power not quite set correctly, a V/S slightly away from optimal (chasing the sensitive glide before looking out) and the workload increasing just when you want any extra capacity to concentrate on moving the gaze from the touchdown zone to the end of the runway. It makes a 'good' landing more difficult from such an approach. However, we all do them, even with years of experience, but the difference is that the experienced pilot still has capacity to make last minute adjustments to 'catch' any late deviation and can 'feel' the landing, even without perhaps looking right down the runway! It all comes with time and experience.

So, have a review of the correct techniques in the FCTM, especially with flap 40. Any chopping of the power, especially if you are spot on the correct Vref + increment in the flare will make you drop onto the runway. If anything, you need to leave the power on a fraction longer than with a flap 30, making sure you are 'flared' before reducing thrust smoothly. In your scenario, if you are floating on a flap 40 landing, on a reasonably short runway with an uphill slope, then your flare has been at the incorrect height. You should be thinking GO AROUND.

Get your approach nice and stable, nice and early on and then hand fly from a reasonable distance out (don't disconnect at 500'!) to get a feel for it. If you fully configure with the automatics in and let the aircraft stabilise for you before disconnecting you will have a reference thrust setting for your speed. Many disconnect with the flaps running, or the autothrottle still moving towards the correct setting. This just adds to your workload. If you want to disconnect earlier, have a ballpark figure for the correct thrust setting; on an -NG, look at INIT REF and your current weight is about the right value for your N1 setting for a flap 40 landing. Use that as a datum to then make small corrections from. For flap 30 it is your current weight minus about 6.

Keep that scan going and don't fixate on the Flight Director, bring in the V/S on the IVSI; another rule of thumb is to fully stabilise, look at the groundspeed and divide by 2 and add a zero (say 150kts G/S means 75 with a zero =750fpm) that is your reference V/S for a 3 degree slope. If the IVSI says 900fpm, you are about to go low on the glide, if it says 600fpm, you WILL go high if you don't correct promptly.

Once you transition to the visual you need to move from inside scan to start bringing outside in more and more. In the last few hundred feet you should be concentrating more on the aiming point and looking inside for speed and the odd glance at the other instruments to confirm they are still correct. Just like in a 152, fix that aiming point in the screen and make minor stick adjustments to keep it there. Don't be chasing the glideslope now, use the aiming point as your reference, keep that speed nailed and your flare will be much easier from this stable position. As you hear the 50,40,30 callouts you should be transitioning to looking right down the runway and starting to 'feel' the height above the runway from the seat of your pants (it will come). Think flare at 30' so you are actioning it at 20'. Pitch the nose to the flare attitude and hold it there. Don't freeze on the controls, keep putting in those little inputs to hold the attitude and the wings level, slowly start to reduce thrust smoothly so as to be at idle as the main gear touches. Easy eh?


As for the passenger comments, as others have said, ignore them. I would be disappointed as a trainer on that flight if your captain did not go and fend off those comments on your behalf. Remember how you feel after that experience. I did exactly the same many moons ago and my captain stood in the flight deck entrance and listened to the rantings of a certain 'seasoned traveller' who was not happy. The captain just said, "it was a safe landing sir", to which the punter disagreed, so he said again "it was a safe landing sir". After repeating this about four or five times the pax gave up and walked off, refusing to take the offered contact details of the Flight Operations Director....Works a treat and I have used exactly the same comments to protect a young colleague in similar circumstances. He was beating himself up and in the end left the crewroom laughing with me.

To sum up;

1. Consider the suitability of the airfield/ runway/ conditions at this early stage in your career and the likelihood of it helping you to conslidate.

2. Communicate with your captain nice and early on, preferably at the planning stage. Most captains appreciate your 'heads up' and will be supportive and encouraging and willing to help. Some might even offer you more landings if they feel you would benefit!

3. Never be afraid to give a landing away, better to do it early, perhaps even brief the possibility so that the guy in the other seat can expect it. They will really appreciate this professionalism.

4. And last but not least, ALWAYS be thinking Go-AROUND, even in the flare if things aren't right and even more so on a limiting runway.

Happy landings

PP
Pilot Pete is offline