I actually agree with Beak that this thread has pretty much run it's course. I also have to hang my head in shame, for as Pilotho has pointed out, in a frenzy of keyboard activity I was indeed using the incorrect word. effect. blimey. What was I thinking.
Anyway. At risk of then prolonging the thread, I just had a couple more points.
1. Beak. So, just so we're absolutely clear here - and to make sure I've understood you correctly:
- You have absolutely no problem with people avoiding proper selection and being helped out by family and friends, as long as you're the beneficiary. If anyone else does it, then they're spoiled little mummy and daddys boys?
- It's ok to be helped out, as long as you can cut the mustard once you're in position, but the OAA cadets are definitely all going to underperform AND be kept on
- It's ok for the CTC cadets to accept this rumping and indeed they are deserving of sympathy, because they were selected (probably 2+ years ago), whereas the OAA cadets ONLY had to pass the OAA 2 day selection process, achieve more than 85% and first time passes in all ATPL exams, had to pass their CPL and IR with first series passes and then had to pass the interviews. Alright - if you want to argue the OAA selection process isn't perhaps the final word in flight crew selection, I wouldn't argue...but there are PLENTY of people who fail it...
- The OAA cadets are entirely to blame for daring to have the money to pay for this scheme. eJ would NOT have done it if the OAA cadets weren't willing to pay. The CTC scheme is TOTALLY different and in no way are those guys actually doing exactly the same thing.
- This scheme would be perfectly acceptable if only eJ had advertised it in the back of Flight to anyone that wanted to apply...you can't blame eJ for the obvious taking avantage can you?
I'm not actually having a go here, but I think you have missed half the detail of the OAA scheme (Although you think you haven't). I think in missing the detail, you are blaming the wrong people - and given you don't know any of these people you are being exceptionally vicious for no reason. I'm guessing that you don't actually think this scheme would be acceptable if advertised to all in Flight - so then surely the point is that the offerance of the scheme itself is wrong, NOT that the actual people that have taken it up came from OAA. A valid point, however, is that whoever does take these schemes up is contributing to their continued presence. That is a different argument altogether.
You say it depends who the ten men are? Well let's take a look....an easy TC, a Freight dog captain with >20000 hours and 35 years experience, someone that turned down the scheme because they thought it was wrong, but at least knows the offer that was made? yes, worth ignoring...
Sid - watching your discussion with Wingswinger with interest. You're both right. "If
only" all cadets would stop doing these schemes, then yes, they WOULD disappear. However, in the five years I've been researching, training and qualified things have only got worse - and this off the back of a hiring boom! The vast majority do NOT - through conscience, principles or simple lack of finance -do these schemes, yet there is always some that can - and that small few provide enough demand to continue the trend. Indeed to WORSEN the conditions of the schemes, for it's no longer just "pay your type rating and have a job....we're now at "pay your type rating AND your initial line hours AND have a temporary job not employed by us directly AND on crap money".
These few don't care, they see that conditions are worsening and decide to jump before it becomes first "pay for your line training", then "pay for first 500 hours" then what? "pay for 1500 hours", "pay for command"? As a newbie, it's difficult to see any point where it will stop. Would you blame someone right now if they paid for their TR and it had a permanent job attached? I'd guess not....but that just illustrates how bad it's got and WHY people like me feel obliged to act or see the career disappear forever (because, the sad truth is, if we know if WE don't take that SSTR spot, someone else will - and the next opportunity will be x% worse for us)
To use Wingswingers analogy of the housing market, it's kind of like being a first time buyer who can just afford something right now, but thinks prices are mad. How long do you sit there and wait for the house price crash you're sure is coming whilst watching prices go up and up and up before you take the plunge? You've sat and watched as the two bed terrace you COULD have bought at the start (if only you'd gone for it) goes out of reach and before you know it, your only choice is a one bed bedsit (if that's not tautological!) or nothing. And yet you're still sure it's mad, it's wrong...but it's NOT abating, house prices continue to spiral away from you. So act, or forget it. Would you blame someone for buying that bedsit?
People have to realise that yes, PTF is ruining the industry and that yes, if only people would stop buying their way onto the flight deck it would stop. But you also have to realise that you will never, ever, ever consolidate every single FTO graduate into a cohesive unit that will act in a manner that would produce the best outcome for both them AND the longterm future of the industry. Why should they? The industry itself won't do this - even now when it's about as bad as anyone thought it could get, people still won't act - and do anything to help them out.
There's no point crying about what "should" be but never will be. Regulation is the way out of this mire and as Wingswinger points out, that's where attention needs to be focussed - how we change regualtion. IMHO, of course. Force the airlines to have two qualified and fully, directly employed pilots on the FD for every single revenue earning flight and see what happens then....I'll tell you...the PTF will die very, very quickly, because there's no benefit.
Apologies for the lengthy post
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