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Old 11th Jan 2010, 13:08
  #2778 (permalink)  
FullWings
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tring, UK
Posts: 1,847
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Bis47,

I think the majority of what you're saying is accurate, even essential reading for when you end up in a forced undershoot situation. However, I do think it unrealistic to expect many airline pilots to have encountered/practiced this scenario - why should they? Most of us have only flown powered aircraft and there is very little, if any, formal training on how to counter a developing undershoot in the way you suggest (correct, IMHO). It's mostly "bar talk". The emphasis is on getting the approach right in the first place.

Not recognizing soon enough that an exceptional problem justifies throwing out all SOPs ... and applying instead basic airmanship, basic flying skills : this is what the story is all about (regarding crew actions, and regarding company training as well).
Again, I agree with the sentiment but the reality is that in the last minute of an (uneventful) 12hr flight, it takes even the Yeagers of this world a short time to work out just what the **** is going on. Remember, the engines were still running and there were no warnings, messages or alerts.

Regarding training, we practice approaches with all engines operating, one out and none at all, not with both stuck on random thrust. I don't see how that could be done any differently as scenarios such as the BA38 are so sensitive to weights, timings, wind, etc. that there is little to take away to apply to a generic class of failure. Also, bear in mind a) the statistical rarity of such events, leading to poor training 'value' and b) the understandable reluctance to run a simulator exercise where a crash is a likely outcome. With limited time and money, most companies concentrate on things that are breaking aircraft regularly, like 'rushed' approaches, CFIT, etc.

If the failure had occurred a minute earlier, they'd have probably been at F20 and Vref20 + a bit. The power settings the engines froze at were just enough to allow a stable approach in that configuration, even an autoland. Hey, if they'd closed the TLs instead of firewalling them, they'd have got the thrust back shortly afterwards as the ice melted on the FOHE faces... but no-one knew that at the time.
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