PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Continental TurboProp crash inbound for Buffalo
Old 16th Dec 2009, 21:55
  #1603 (permalink)  
Clandestino
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Correr es mi destino por no llevar papel
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Originally Posted by captjns
On steam gauged aircraft you can set any speed you want with the plastic bugs, be they corrector in correct.

On the new generation aircraft, speeds are automatically calculated based on data input in the FMC...
Q400 flightdeck looks much like classic one with EFIS grafted on. Speeds are not set via FMS but via Index control panel, outboard of PFDs. When airborne, two bugs can be set, solid and outline, and each pilot can set theirs independently. FS Canada procedure was to set solid to Vref (+additions) and outline to Vga. I'm not sure wheteher Colgan modified this procedure, but I think chances are pretty small.

Originally Posted by Diamond Bob
The pilot was able to set the bugs below the stall speed, isn't that so?
Not quite - he set it below stall warning speed, which had ample margin to actual stall, especially as there was no significant ice on the airframe.
Originally Posted by Diamond Bob
It would seem to be a good idea that there be some safeguard against that.
Well, there's a good reason not to have safeguard against that. Bugs are set usually near the top of descent. If temperature at landing is high, no icing additions are set, but if during descent aeroplane passes through some cold clouds, Incr ref speed switch has to be used. If it gets forgotten, during decelaration there's "Oh, cr*p!" callout when low speed cue presents itself way to early with bugged app speed embedded in it. Prompt switching and uneventful rest of the approach & landing ensues.

Originally Posted by Love_joy
Does anyone know which variant Colgan flies with?

On NTSB animation, there was speed tape and it can also be seen on this photo. So I assume Colgan Q400s have speed tape.

Originally Posted by Bearfoil
There was an utter lack of professionalism on the FD on approach.
"Lack of professionalism" doesn't cut it. Crew paid for their actions with their lives and took their cabin crew and passengers with them. It was not mere "unprofessionalism", it was inability to comprehend the gravity of the self inflicted situation and therefore no self preservation instinct kicked in. This has " double incapacitation" written all over it.

Stall recovery procedure in transport category aeroplanes doesn't apply to line pilots, only to test ones. Transport aeroplanes are not designed for pleasant stall characteristics, especially not Q400 which had to have stick pusher installed to meet the certification criteria. Line pilots are trained to recover promptly at stall warning, while aeroplane is not stalled yet. If they by misfortune enter the fully blown stall, same procedure has to be followed but now there are no guarantees of success.

And there's that inconvenient fact that some respectable individuals gloss over: if crew through action or inaction manages to get fully serviceable transport aeroplane into full stall or severe UA, chances are b***er-all that it will have presence of mind to apply appropriate recovery actions correctly and promptly.
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