PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Black Hawk Accident was NOT settling with Power
Old 2nd June 2002 | 17:08
  #16 (permalink)  
Nick Lappos
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
to Flare Dammit:

Your disbelief is earned of experience, and there is nothing wrong with behaving at all times OGE as if the sky was going to fall at any minute, but that still does not mean it will. It also doesn't mean that you won't find trouble, because you are looking in the wrong place for it if you believe VRS is common. It is power deficit that is common, and that is what I contend we should stamp out. For you to blanket all effects as one, ignore the actual physics and press on can seem quite safe, but it is opening yourself up to problems because you really don't know what causes the problem, or how to prevent it. I suggest, Flare Dammit, that you open up a bit.

I should note for you that purely vertical rejected takeoffs in twins from heights up to 100 feet are routine, and the descents can result in 1000 feet per minute drops without VRS. I have done at least 1000 such maneuvers.

The fact that you can conjecture a reasonable down draft causing VRS, or that that wildly spinning Sea King doing so because the pilot was too busy are examples of such compartmentized thinking. As far as real VRS data are concerned, I will post some on my brand new web site, if you'll look at it!

Vertical maneuvers are easy, and safe when there is enough regular ordinary available power. One does not need magical rotor VRS bugaboos to get in trouble if there is not sufficient power reserve in the OGE hover.

The US Army specifies that the Hawk must have 500 feet per minute climb rate OGE at 4000 feet and 32 degrees C while at full mission gross weight. That helicopter can be maneuvered vertically with impunity, down to rates of descent as I described.

My suggestion is to try the dreaded maneuver in question at safe altitude, and see. Use a light aircraft with gobs of extra power. Begin to descend carefully, in stages, about 250 fpm at a jump and see what indicated rates of descent you get, and how the trimmed power changes. If things get flakey, note the ROD and nose out of the maneuver, then post the results here.

As for the Bollocks, tried them once and didn't like them! I started off "slightly off base" and ended up "foolish" but that is par for this course, I'm afraid!
 
Reply