PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - AMS-BHX; Why FL 270?
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Old 30th May 2002, 23:12
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Stop Stop Stop
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Thank you all for your replies. It is certainly interesting to see the problems from the ground based guys! Maybe some of the discussion goes over my head, but as you suggest Traffic Master, perhaps I really ought to make an effort to visit NERC and see what goes on. (But who would I contact?)

It seems that the 'Short Cut' issue holds different stories for diferent controllers: some of you who have responded seem to think it is a good thing (gets rid of me quicker) and others think it is too much trouble (fair enough, I like a simple life as well). Personally I don't really care which way we we go as I'm not paying for the petrol but it sure does make you feel better when you get a short cut and you have an extra 3 minutes or whatever to eat your breakfast! To be honest, keeping high speed to the outer marker is the best way to save time (something we can do pretty well unlike the Boeings- the F100 can go down and slow down but its going up quickly we have trouble with!)

Foo fighting, your computer calculations may be correct, I cannot argue with you as I cannot see how you have worked it out, but it obviously depends on where the diversion from track occurs. Sometimes, AMS ATC will put us on a heading which looks suspiciously towards BKY round about VALKO, so when we reprogram our FMS on getting the green light from the London Controler, there is quite an obvious track milage saving, just by looking at the picture on our screen. Next time I do the route I will do a bit of playing about with the FMS and I will try and get some more accurate figures. Even 15 miles saves about 2 minutes and about 85 litres of fuel. That adds up over a year.

What I certainly agree with is these sectors are getting phenominally busy. On the TCAS display, there seems to often be a frightening amount of traffic converging on LAM/BPK area and I can only see a slice 6000' thick. Often the controllers are hardly pausing for breath between instructions. Quite a feat; I take my hat off to you all, I don't know how you keep the 'big picture' and do all the other tasks along the way.

Finally, Niknak, yeah maybe you have a point. I don't know why we don't operate on the routing you suggest. There has always been a reluctance by the company to go via this routing (except to SH). There must be a reason as I am sure it will have been looked at. We have a tactical reroute officer whose job is to monitor slots and stuff and refile different routings to avoid sectors where slots are being generated from. Maybe that department will have an answer and I will put it to them on our company forum and report back. I have a feeling that it is something to do with the fact of the 'bull****' that you mention. Our ops manual discourages the operation outside of controlled airspace unless absolutely essential and then at the commanders discretion. However, it is a requirement that RAS is provided and I am not convinced that is always the case from Lon Mil. I have to admit, it certainly can be a bit of a pain to go AMS - NWI; on first contact to Lon Mil you have to go through the whole "We are an F100 AMS - NWI.... request..." scenario even though it is a scheduled flight and the controller probably could set his or her watch by the timing of the call. At 8 miles a minute you don't really need to be wasting too many minutes.

Again it is a good point and I will pass it on.
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