I can list a dozen or so terrorist, but Rahamutallah Safi, was trained by Russian Spetznaz in 60's, USA AND CIA at Bragg, Peary, & Pickett in 80's and Brit Regiments after (Scotland). We also trained Tibetan Rebels in Colorado, Trained others in US, Yousaf, Sayyad, Etc... Common knowlwedge these guys were brought over. We even have a US school dedicated to training South Americans... Just like we are training in Georgia, Philippines, and Yemen.
We gave 45 mil a year in training to Afghan Rebels from 7 Factions, 4 or which were "extremist".
So, your solution is to sit there and try to fight these highly trained guys off with the crash axe and fire extinguisher?
Glaser's penetrate first, sorry will cut bulkhead up. Subsonic yes, still powerful enough to break something BIG. If you feel they are safe, take off alone, and shoot inside the plane then call me.
What can one possibly hit in the aircraft that will do as much damage as a sidewinder or building. How much energy will the fragments of the slug have after penetrating a bulkhead? A lot less than the aircraft will when it hits something hard.
Question, Bulletproof vests set off metal detectors, yes or no?
Since they generally aren't made of metal, I don't think that they would set off metal detectors.........
A gun only protects the man carrying it, your locked in the cockpit with you gun, plane lands and crew is dead but you live, "survior guilt" anyone...
The key word in this sentance is "survivor". If I was able to land the aircraft, then the aircraft was not used as a weapon. This is the entire reason for arming pilots. To prevent the wrong folks from taking control of the airplane. If the gun protects me, and I am able to continue flying the aircraft, hasn't it also protected thousands of office workers?
Besides don't you guys have Axes already near your seats?
This is as/more effective than a firearm while sitting in a confined space with the attackers behind you?
Weak side shooting easy to teach? OK, then don't use it for a year and tell me how it goes...
Actually, weak side shooting is easier to teach than hand to hand combat with highly trained individuals in a confined space. I routinely practice weak hand shooting during training with the local police (I volunteer to be the bad guy. Simunition HURTS, so I try not to get hit too often.......)
Who is paying for the class, who is paying for the Glocks? Ariline, or Pilot?
The way the DOJ proposed it, we would be trained at Quantico with a 2 week course, courtesy of Uncle Sam, and the weapons issued at the successful completion of the course.
I would be happy to provide my own weapon and pay for the training myself given the opportunity.
I will get the reports on PO, bottom line: 3 rounds aren't required to go into the ground, it is where the end up from the excitment, hand goes on pistol, finger on trigger, rounds start to fly out as they draw, called stress...
I am quite familiar with stress. A trainable situation. Much like an engine fire/V-1 cut/loss of all generators etc etc etc........
The systems needs a bunch of overhaul, but if I know your armed, I will play up to that, all I need is disrupt security, disurpt normal flight activity and get you to make 1 mistake and I set all this back 20 years, publc will turn on you, turn on Airline and turn on everyone else for arming you.
I totally agree with you about the system needing overhaul. I'd LOVE for you to "set all this back 20 years"! Back then, all hijackers wanted was to go to Cuba.......and pilots were allowed to carry guns as well as swiss army knives.
The day you get armed I work towards that, may take 2 years but I work on nothing but that scenerio.
2 years is better than the 5 minutes it'd take right now for you to take the airplane.........
et me wrong if I was flying I want a gun too, but not for any other reason but a greedy, personal, self satistifying reason, hardly as noble as protecting the plane or passengers.
Well, if you're that shallow and can't see the logic in arming yourself as a last ditch measure before EVERYONE on the airplane dies (as well as anyone hit on the ground) then I suggest that you choose not to.
paper mache doors, get new doors, better locks along with electronic bolt locks that work off panic button, then you don't need a gun if you not exiting the cockpit.
I agree about reinforcing the door, but any door can be breached. The reinforced door will take a little longer. It would give us time to divert as well as defend the cockpit.
we can go back and forth, but with looking at the total cross section of pilots, the average level of training, the training necessary to bring all up to speed and stay there, the point is lost. Effort vs Risk vs Reward, and I think the math is in Effort vs Risk's favor.
I disagree. Very few professions require the judgement or training that flying an airliner does. Any pilot that thinks he can't be trained to safely carry a firearm on duty should seriously reconsider his profession. Relatively small effort, little or no risk and very large reward if a hijacking is averted.
How much is a Sky Marshal paid vs a Military Soldier, Sailor or Marine? Which has large numbers, is cost effective, and can be rotated in and out before getting complacient?
Other than the cost issue, I don't see much difference between using military folks and the sky marshalls. Both are/would be in the cabin which increases the risk of the terrorist gaining a firearm.
Plus changes the face in the seat, how about that for an unknown variable vs Solution, may not even have to overly arm them, thought alone would deter, especially if you were unsure how many guys on any given flight...
I can't argue with you there, especially on the "overly arm" part. Imho, firearms in the cabin pose a much greater risk than on the flight deck, regardless of whose got them. The entire armed LEO situation is ripe for the picking from a tango's perspective. We are worried that some guy is going to (or has) impersonated a pilot, yet we let every Podunk PD guy with an easily forged ID, even easier to forge letter of authorization and a 9mm on our aircraft IN THE CABIN..........