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Old 13th Aug 2009, 06:07
  #84 (permalink)  
Chimbu chuckles

Grandpa Aerotart
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
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gullibell your statements display a comprehensive lack of knowledge of what flying in mountain valleys entails.

If TAWs was enabled in their G530 the entire screen would be red all the time and the warnings would be going off continuously. When you are flying in PNG mountain valleys in weather you are typically operating at a few 100' agl sometimes lower - crossing ridges/gaps for instance you WILL be briefly at < 50' agl. You would typically have your right wing tip closer than that to the side of the valley to give maximum radius of turn in the event you need to do a 180 and escape back down the way you have come. You may be operating at reduced speed, in a Twotter for example you might be flying along at 80kts/flap 20 at times due terrain/rain/cloud - and even in that config a 180 turn might require 45 degree AoB to NOT hit the ground in the turn - with rain on the windscreen and with no visible horizon because the ground just outside the windscreen is tilted up at all sorts of crazy angles and covered in trees - there will most likely be wispy cloud/mist covering the terrain as well as the overcast less than 50' above you. TAWs/EHGPS is great if operating at/above IAL procedure limiting altitudes but of no use at all in the style of flying this crew was doing.

Too GPS is great when you are flying over flat terrain/above LSALT - but it only gives you straight line dist/track to your destination and in valleys you NEVER fly in straight lines. What use is a track/dist/ETA on a GPS if there is a bloody great mountain that you have to fly around?

I remember flying from Moresby to Nadzab back in about 1991 in my C185. The weather was CRAP - black CBs up to space, rain etc - A fella who had been in PNG 1 day came along for the ride with his new Garmin 100 GPS - first one I had ever seen in fact. He proceeded to suction cap the aerial to the windscreen and attempt to 'help' me find my way through the valleys B050 in areas where the MORAs were 12000' - he turned it off before we were half way and just watched. He subsequently left it switched off for his route/strip training and only bought it out for special occasions - flying around the Gulf Of Papua/Coastal areas where it is flat.

Gullibell et al you will notice that I am making NO COMMENTS on what caused this crash or the crews actions despite being intimately knowledgeable of the aircraft type (2600 hrs on type, in PNG, all single pilot) and the route they were flying.

I suggest you, and anyone else considering comments based on 100% ignorance of the facts, ponder that.

Here is a picture of someone making an approach in a Twotter to Tumolbil in the western highlands (hundred of miles from Efogi but very similar) in nice weather.

WTF use is TAWs/GPS?



Crossing a ridge (not me) - note difference between altitude and height agl.



This is actually me climbing out of Kokoda in light rain - note the wispy cloud in the trees on the ridge line behind/below me - we are at about 3000' in an area where the MORA is 14000' - probably < 10nm from the crash site but as I said before the Kokoda valley is large - where they have crashed is a better described as a gorge. We were tracking out via the Wairopi to the coastal plains on climb LSALT to track back to Moresby as I described a few pages back.


Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 13th Aug 2009 at 08:20.
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