I have a minute or two of background in weapons so put up with this for a second.
I believe that this statement is accurate.......
Question, what weapon would you like to use? 9mm, 45, 22?
Personally, a .45 (Glock 30) with a lasermax integral laser sight loaded with Glaser safety slugs would be my first choice.
Basically you would have to re-work the round to be used in an aircraft. Last images I saw of Federal Air Marshals training used a Sig 9mm, bad choice, your going through the person and into the airframe.
G-L-A-S-E-R..........
The 22 or 45 is all you have and then your only getting so many rounds or at least no first round stopping power.
Uhhh, there are many caliber choices in the effective working handgun field, but .22 is not one of them. My ultracompact Glock 27 (which is .40 S&W caliber) holds 9+1. My not quite as compact Glock 30 (.45 ACP) holds 10+1. Either one of these would be a good choice from both a stopping power and capacity standpoint.
We can't even talk Glaser Safety slugs, designed to penetrate first, expand second.
Why not?
Sub sonic loads, who's going to make them?
Well, most .45 loads ARE subsonic anyway, but what does that matter?
United Mechanics, sure after the government signs on Remington, or Federal will probably love the contract, thats after some R&D to be sure they don't get sued for jams, malfunctions, or loss of life.
You're rambling there sparky..........
Someone will start an Armory Union to outfit you guys, take care of the weapons and ammo.
I'll take care of my own weapons, thank you......
Fragable rounds don't break up when you want them too.
And terrorists don't follow TSA security directives......
Next, who is going to carry it and where? The Pilot? Left seat, so your also left handed right, because your facing the wrong way and have about 3 seconds to react, so if it was me, I would put the round through my own right shoulder to hit the target in time.
Shooting yourself in the shoulder? PAHLEEEZE! Weak hand shooting is not that hard. This is not bullseye competition at Camp Perry. This is last ditch defense of the cockpit. Sitting there and asking the bad guys to politely leave will not work......
So you're probably just giving the gun to the extremely & overly trained hijacker... let's not forget there is going to be about 4 to 5 guys you need to stop.
And without a firearm, you propose to stop them how? Even if you are struggling with the bad guy while seated, you have infinitely better chances of surviving with a fiream than with nothing.
The right round to maybe not penetrate the person and plane more than likely won't cycle the pistol action, so wheel gun or manual, (only 6 rounds max in wheel?)
Let me repeat G-L-A-S-E-R....... Plenty of stopping power and will most likely NOT penetrate the hull.....not that I am overly worried about hitting a hydraulic, electric or fuel line. If the bad guys are in the cockpit, and I somehow manage to overcome them, I will GLADLY deal with a loss of "A" system. As far as merely puncturing the fuselage goes, a .45 makes a hole of 11.25 mm. Given the choice, (which I am not) I'll take a SLOW pressurization leak over a slit throat any day.......
Word on their training, they were only trained by US, English and Russian Special Forces, in places like Fort Bragg, Scotland, and Ukraine, so these guys know what they are doing. This isn't just a last minute idea by a group of extremist.
So we are better off fighting these highly trained individuals with our bare hands?
Then we have to be able to take out at least 4 guys, probably deal with a dead passenger, fly, and live to regret it.
I can deal with that.........I may regret it, but at least I'll be alive to do so! Without a firearm, how does one "take out" 4, presumably trained guys?
Does anyone know how many rounds Police Officers put into the ground during a surprise shooting? 3, a minimum of 3 rounds are going into the ground during a shooting and usually they empty the magazine, that is fact not conjecture.
Please support your conjecture regarding the minimum number of rounds that a police officer is required to fire into the ground.....
So can you pull the pistol out, compose yourself and fire effectively? (facing the wrong way)
Yes.
I am not sure I could, I actually would feel a bit helpless in that seat... even with a pistol, I bet I start seeing ghosts, jumping at every sound, and touching my piece more often then people would like... Distracting these toys can be.
In this case, I suggest that you not choose to be armed, as you will be a danger to yourself as well as others.......
Best chance I see is locking yourself in the cockpit, and listening to people getting executed behind the door, trying to get you to open it, not a job I want.
Well, we can lock the paper mache door, but I doubt that we will have to listen to people being executed for very long, since most "goal oriented" or "suicidal" hijackers really want to be in the cockpit and will force their way in rather quickly.
Another question, your locked in there, you have pistol, 4 guys have your crew and a passengers by the throat and want you out... They already killed two, people are screaming, and you decide to open the door not knowing what you will find on the other side?
This is the perfect time to NOT open the door. As long as they are behind it, I can continue to fly the plane. It's when they get in that there is a problem.
You step out and two guys with women start to move towards you with their head behind the person, (they don't have to see, they can watch the ground) and as the get closer they throw the first woman at you, jump on top and wrestle the pistol away or do you shoot the women?
You don't leave the cockpit in the first place.
This is a viable scenerio, try for a leg shot?
It's only viable if you leave the cockpit, which is NOT viable......
Go through the floor, what below the aircraft baggage or avionics? Now with that wheel gun you only have 6 rounds, can both armed guys leave the cockpit and attend the problem?
You don't leave the cockpit in this situation. (dot. end.) Besides, if it comes to down to it, I really don't care if there are a few extra holes in the baggage. Unarmed, the baggage, along with the airplane and everyone in it, will be reduced to it's basic atomic elements when it hits the building.
Here is a scene, you're standing in the door, passengers are entering the plane, your wearing the gun, I come on last, hit you and take it, then because I can fly take off without you?
I see, you're going to close the door, have the ground crew push back the aircraft, start the engines, taxi out to a runway, take off, navigate to the nearest skyscraper or nuclear powert plant and crash the airplane into it without any of the passenger, ground crew, copilot, flight attendants, ground ops folks etc. etc. etc. stopping you? Pahleeze.........
maybe not......
Guy in court took a weapon off someone today, so it can happen.
It can happen to a sky marshall, FBI agent, SS agant, USDA chicken inspector, postal inspector, department of education person , dea agent (all of which are allowed to carry guns on MY airplane.....) as well, and they are IN the cabin.
I don't know too many variables you can't control.
Me either, that's why I want to be armed......
A pistol is not the answer, we had a saying in the Marine Corps, "Good to be hard, hard to be smart".
Actually, a pistol IS the answer, and your second statement is very true.......
You're better off enlisting the Military to make flights a new duty station
Oh, I forgot to list military personell in the list of people that can be disarmed.
and sticking more than one guy on a flight, might be good work. They are already trained, paid and available to work.
Well, there's an idea.........isn't that what the sky marshalls do? The entire sky marshall situation begs the question. The pilots are killed, but the marshalls are able to dispatch the hijackers. Who flies the plane?
Yes.......
http://www.glock.com/g30.htm