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Old 27th Jul 2009, 15:56
  #16 (permalink)  
Capt Pit Bull
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Ab

This is exactly what I am talking about - and you should know better than anyone. "Established" means on the localiser and glide, by definition - nothing else - there's no "fully" about it! You don't expect "Established, on localiser and glidepath" - why not take it further and say "Fully established, on localiser and glidepath" - and say it three times over just to be sure? Why not "cleared land and to put my wheels on the runway"
I'm with BOAC on this one. How else do explain the innumerable threads on this board over the last 10 years over the necessity of being cleared for the ILS but being told to report 'LOCALISER established' so that we can then be given the seperate clearance to descend on the glide. Its ATC that drive this distinction, not flight crew.

The reality is that radio pro-words are intended to have standard meanings, but as the nature of the operation changes the formal definition may not mean exactly what we want to say and it therefore becomes necessary to add additional words to clarify what we want.

Pro-words are supposed to be our servants, not our masters, it is perfectly reasonable to add a word or two for emphasis when the situation warrants it.

And incidentally, the 'ready for push' versus 'fully ready for push' is another thing driven by the realities of the situation; vis-a-vis ground ops allocation of a tug versus the start queue, versus allocation of a place in the start queue. The chicken and egg situation. At some places you can't get a tug until you have a place in the start queue; this collides head on with the need to be ready before calling for start.

Consequently the concept of being 'ready' but not being 'fully' ready is valid!

Now, if you'd like a new pro-word that means "The aircraft is fuelled, loaded and ready for pushback in all respects apart from having a tug" I'd be the first to support it.

"Report ready for departure".
"Ready in 2 minutes".

2 minutes later after organising other traffic.

"Cleared for take-off".
"We need another minute
Now then Dizzee. Did the pilot actually report ready? No? Why clear him for it then? Most likely, he's waiting on cabin security, so any time passed is a guesstimate of something he doesn't directly control.

OK, I admit, if I'd been in his shoes I'd have said 'ESTIMATE 2 mins" or similar but there no need to bust his balls for trying to give you some information to help your planning

The alternative is we say nothing, (and of course if the freq is busy that might be the best option).


pb
(though I only fly a desk these days so what do I know)
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