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Old 17th Jul 2009, 12:52
  #3708 (permalink)  
aguadalte
 
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All aspects of the flight prior to 0210Z show a functioning aircrew, doing a serious job of keeping ahead of the aircraft, proposing some strict R/T procedures...
Actually, I think that this statement needs examination. From 1:35 until 2:14 the only crew action of which we are aware is their third attempt to establish the ADS-C link with Dakar ATC at 2:01. No other comms at all. Having made two attempts at 1:33 & 1:35, the crew then apparantly waited another 25 minutes, until the last possible minute to meet ADS-C requirements, to make their third try. The BEA report says that the minimum ADS-C requirement is reporting 20 mins ahead of entry into Dakar FIR; 2:01 is just about 20 mins ahead of their estimated time at TASIL (actually I believe 2:20 was Atlantico ATC's projection, not the crew's estimate).
Can someone here who has experience/knowledge of ADS-C answer this: once an initial connection has been attempted, could the system automatically generate further attempts - especially at the 20 mins threshhold when it detects that the connection has not been made? Or can the crew program the system to make further attempts? The BEA report says that the first connection has to be made by the crew - but could the BEA mean that the initial attempt at a connection has to be made by the crew?
I appreciate that there may well be a perfectly mundane explanation for the 25 minutes silence, but as this is the only comm I believe it is worth asking the question.
My first post - have been reading this from day 1, but it is easy to miss things/forget what you have read, so apologies if this has already been answered - but I don't believe that it has.
As far as I know, (at least with the systems we use) I don't think connections may be "programmed by the pilot to automatically generate further attempts". CPDLC-ADS was on testing in the Atlantico and Dakar areas. Connections with Atlantico were, until last month, completely impossible to make, but flights could in fact connect with Dakar by prior talking with them via HF (about 40 minutes prior to enter de FIR), stating that they wanted to establish an ADS connection and giving them a complete radio report with the estimates for all reporting points, altitude, speed, A/C type, tail number and selcal. This would allow the Dakar operator to insert the data into the system. After 10 to 15 minutes, they would call you back saying that you could connect. I've done this a lot of times and it worked fine. Of course you have to fly to Africa and to the Latin Americas to "understand the system". How they work. The use of CPDLC-ADS in those Continents is completely different from the one in the North Atlantic...

But then, again...what do I know?
I'm just an...
arrogant to judge on a crew's action without a modicum 1/-of experience of flying through the ITCZ and 2/-in the comfort of an armchair.
Lemurian: I wonder what you meant by:
These guys had one hour and six minutes of flight worth in fuel
I think they had more...if they were available for a refueling technical landing to complete the flight, or had less, having in mind the completeness of the flight, provided they would have to re plan, having in mind (EU OPS 1 (again...)
(...) (1) Contingency fuel —
Fuel that is not less than 5 % of the planned trip fuel or, in the event of in-flight replanning, 5 %
of the trip fuel for the remainder of the flight; and (...)
Further, I understand your explanation of the fuel figures used by AF. I just don't think they are in the spirit of the law. EU OPS 1 says, x% of the trip fuel, it doesn't say, x% of the trip fuel, deducted by the fuel burned by the fact that you have to carry it, that should be added to trip fuel. And the reason why, is because pilots do need to have clear figures to administrate. How does the contingency fuel shows to the pilot on the FMGC? Is it shown, one part of it on "trip", and the other on a "percentage of the trip"? Because, as far as I know, 3% of the trip fuel, shown on FMGC, before take-off should read 1910 kg, not 1460 kg. And those 940 kg, would have been showing up on the extra fuel prompt.
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