Originally Posted by General Dread
I'm interested to know, what would your opinion be if it was a Monarch aircraft that was attacked?
A very good point indeed. I think it comes back to public perception (which I will touch on again in a moment in reply to Tudor), but people have a higher expectation of WMP than they do of Monarch etc when it comes to organising security / assessing risk. If it were another aircraft that were damaged, people would be asking questions of BHX and WMP as to why the security was so easily circumvented, why there was no intelligence (accepting not always possible), and what would be done in future to prevent a re-occurance. This is what has been asked of Stanstead & Essex police, and London City & The Met in light of their recent security problems.
Another point of course is that generally Monarch etc don't use their aircraft to curtail the activities of criminals, and thus can reasonably expect not to attract unwanted attention from them more than WMP can. It is a very high profile anti-criminal asset afterall.
Originally Posted by B.U.D.G.I.E
nice post maybe you should have thought of that a little sooner
rather than making a bit of a mamory of yourself
I have meant that all along, and admit that I perhaps haven't put it in every post Budgie, but my first post did contain the following statement:
Originally Posted by HeliCraig
Now, my little rant about WMP over - this is an absolute tragedy for us
And yes, I haven't made some of my points particularly well at times, however as others have presented a differing point of view mine has altered in response. Like many others, I am not always 100% right; however unlike others I am prepared to admit that and possibly change my position as I learn. Surely a benefit of an informed debate?
Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer
"playing the victim" in it is ever so slightly galling What on earth does that mean?
Are they not victims of crime even if (in your opinion) they could have done more to prevent it?
When I watched the video of the senior officer (think Deputy Chief Constable) giving a press statement about the incident I personally found his demeanor to be too skewed to the "we are a victim" argument. However, you are entirely correct they are indeed a victim of crime and are entitled to feel aggrieved about it.
Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer
Was that meant to be a sensible comment or were you just trying to provoke a reaction?
In hindsight a bit of both. It has been a comment made to me by several people (non aviators mainly) when talking about the incident. It comes down to public perception - the majority of the population is law abiding and trusts the police. They look to the police for crime prevention advice and rely on them to prevent crime as far as possible.
As everyone else is using hypothetical scenarios to further their case: Would you take security advice from someone who was currently being burgled?
Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer
Why is it so important to you to that others agree with you?
It isn't particularly. However, it's very frustrating when you make a point and it is countered with other irrelevant arguments, largely based on provoking an emotional response, and the point you are making goes unanswered.
Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer
However, I wonder if perhaps you're allowing the experience you describe to cloud your judgment here.
Quite possibly, its hard for me to objective about my own opinions. However, insinuations have been made that in some way I am engaged in "Plod Bashing" or that I wish the denigrate the excellent work done by the ASU. This is not the case, or at least was not my intention. My concern / grievance is really with the poor security and risk assessment which led to a very expensive public asset being destroyed quite easily.
Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer
Unfortunately, some police officers needlessly antagonise members of the public who would otherwise have continued to be staunch supporters.
Precisely. As you will find in most professions I believe. Which is why I have no contention with any single police officer, other than the two who needlessly (in my opinion) wasted my time. I am positive that the vast majority of officers set out with only good intentions and are competent individuals. Of course, I will remain polite to those I encounter as I would any other person, however the actions of the two I encountered have lowered my opinion of the police as a whole. One bad apple and all that...
Now, for those of you thinking that I may be back tracking you are partly right and this post is meant in a conciliatory tone. I may have been overly aggressive and not stated my case in a particularly concise manner initially; and my opinion has changed slightly as a result of this discussion (especially the point about Monarch). However, I retain the belief that in light of the high profile warnings about BHX security, the high profile nature of the ASU and the desire for "retribution" from those who rightly feel the force of the ASU that somebody at WMP has seriously underestimated the risk of this happening.