BB I don't know what you are on about "And as far as you being there from the start, i was the start" as I never said I was but in fact in a way I guess some of us were as OA is not ON , a fact which a lot of people like ITS and yourself have trouble understanding. I think you will find most staff more than happy with their lot even F/Os and their pay calculated on an hourly basis would leave most of the industry rates behind. It's easy to knock from the outside but as I said we are still here and have a long list of aircrew asking for work.Nothing personal meant by my post but you have taken it that way (sad). As far as ITS ,sad ,double sad. I stand by my statement wishing all well and employment for all because the alternatives are very unattractive