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Old 1st Apr 2009, 05:26
  #412 (permalink)  
MR8
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Acceleration check is NOT the solution

Gentlemen, again...

I have to agree with mrs nomer and ZimmerFly. This should have been trapped before the aircraft starts rolling. I think the SOP's we use at EK are wellequiped for that, but unfortunately, lapses do happen, especially operating in an environment such as EK for reasons well explained before and in other threads.

GearDown&Locked:
Your check would indeed work if you knew the correct v1/vr/v2. If the error has been one of entering the wrong weight, your speeds will be a lot lower then required, and even with your acceleration check being ok, you will run out of runway before getting airborne. And this time with a safe feeling because your acceleration check has been ok...

Just for your info, on the typical EK A345 operations, we do very short trips on the A345 as well as the ultra long haul it was designed for, Hence, our v2 speeds will range from somewhere in the lower 130's up to the higher 170's.

Again, about the whole acceleration check thing. As I posted before I am completely AGAINST it. It is NO good way of checking your take off numbers. If you do your checklater in the takeoff roll, it is too dangerous to stop. You might have encountered more tailwind then expected, a windshear, ... Since you don't know if you can still stop, it is ALWAYS better to hit the TOGA and GO!!
I know that you could calculate the correct GS vs. Runway remaining etc.. but then you would get kind of conditional speeds. Like in: Before the v1 of xxx knots we call STOP unless the GS is XXX and the runway remaining etc etc... Not a good situation for a speed designed to make a QUICK STOP/GO decision.

Whilst an acceleration check at 80 knots vs. remaining runway might sound like a safer option, since you will always have enough runway to stop if the check should be unsatisfactory: even this check would be useless. At lower speeds such a check can only be done out of a static TO condition, e.g. beginning of the runway, stopped, applying thrust. Loads of time we enter the runway for a rolling take off. If this is done in an expeditious way, we are above 30 knots by the time we apply TO thrust. An acceleration check at lower speeds would thus be invalid and set you up with a false sense of safety.

Conclusion: the ONLY way to stop this kind of errors is to either have the ACTUAL aircraft weight at your disposal for a crosscheck (which the industry wouldn't like) or as mentioned in the start of my post, by trapping the error before the doors are shut.

MR8
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