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Old 29th Mar 2009, 17:50
  #383 (permalink)  
PJ2
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: BC
Age: 76
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Dairyground;
Roll distance is not so easily measured, but could require extra hardware or modification of the software of existing systems. A conceptually simple system would be to adopt automotive technology and count revolutions of the landing gear wheels.

To drift slightly further from the main topic, one post a few pages back suggested that measuring time or distance to speed could give a reasonably accurate estimate of the weight of cargo and passengers, and averaged over a large number of flights be used to update the average wight of passengers and their carry-on baggage. Could the same information already be extracted from correlation of data captured by the flight data recorder and the loadsheets?
The timing method was discussed, if I recall, as a sidebar in the Madrid Spanair accident thread. Most agreed that if the takeoff run was longer than about 45 to 50 seconds, it was starting to get into outlier territory.

To be meaningful, timing to V1 would involve a number of factors as we know and, as has been pointed out, would require more accurate weight information than the industry, including the regulators, seem to be presently satisfied with.

A long time ago when designing the FOQA program, we decided to include a takeoff distance calculation for each takeoff. The IRS groundspeed parameter, (sampled once per second), is converted to feet-per-second and summed until the liftoff point. We do the same for landing distance.

Though not accurate to the foot because of the 1" time slices used, it presents a sufficiently accurate snapshot of takeoff performance. Most but not all of our aircraft LFL's, (logical frame layouts) are programmed to record wheel speed (in meters-per-second). The parameter is also not 100% reliable - so we use the groundspeed method. This collected information could then be married with the data you suggest in your post and then compared with the numbers that the "manufacturer sales people provide".

All this requires trained resources which no airline seems willing to provide these days but the matter itself does have data solutions. The fact that the airline doesn't use any of this data in any meaningful or productive way is beyond our control but the information is there for each takeoff to provide a full picture of the fleet's takeoff performance over long periods of time in varying conditions off different runways.

I have to say that Airbus provides far more information for the contaminated runway case for both takeoff and landing which includes the use of the CRFI, (Canadian Runway Friction Index) tables for landing, than other manufacturers I've seen but that's a bit of thread drift.
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