Keg has stayed in the dark on the EBA rollover...
Goodness knows there is
SO much information out there about it!
I heard about the proposed percentage pay rises the same time as I heard about proposed A380 rates. The percentage pay rises strike me as a good deal. Whether they are enough to over ride my philosophical concerns on other matters will depend on what the deal looks like in totality.
As to the timing of me raising things, the trigger for me was the voting down of EBA8 given that in terms of pay rates at least, the day 1 lottery and to a certain extent the 'value' of F/Os was addressed as part of that deal- it was probably one of the better things about EBA8. (As a side note, Dave and I disagree somewhat on that issue but that's another story). The 'rollover' document does nothing to address these issues but does exacerbate both the day 1 lottery as well as diminishing the value of 767 F/Os. Once I knew about those issues that is where I became quite focused on it. However even prior to that my feedback was to NOT engage in an rollover EBA but to get it right this time. All in all, given that I have argued against the principles behind the day 1 lottery and advocated properly recognising the 'work' done by the 767 for about a decade or so- as a search of my posts on Qrewroom will attest to- I'm not sure you can play the 'command' card in that way. In fact, it appears to be quite misleading. Perhaps a quick read through my 1000+ posts on Qrewroom over the last decade may give some idea as to when I actually became involved in these philosophical issues.
A while back someone took an shot on PPRUNE at Chuck Hennesy. I disagreed (publicly on Qrewroom) with Chuck on many issues but to target him directly on a forum such as this where he isn't known to contribute, on the basis of comments he made in another private forum, was poor form and grossly unfair. By all means debate the crux of his points but leave the personalities out- particularly when those personalities aren't even a part of the PPRUNE community.
Whilst Dave has now chosen to say his part, that same philosophy applies here with respect to Dave. He's not a PPRUNE contributor- up until his one and perhaps only post here (you'll be back Dave
)- and he has not made comment on PPRUNE for you to respond to. He's not a public figure in the industry like Dick Smith and nor has he sought to make comment in the wider public forum. For him to be 'named' by his initials behind his back and then knifed by anonymously by being called a 'loudmouth' is just crap. By all means attack his points- which you didn't- and attempt to tear them down to your hearts content but to just call him a loudmouth anonymously on PPRUNE is a low act.
For me on the other hand, go your hardest on PPRUNE. If you want to call me a PPRUNE loudmouth then knock yourself out. Heck, you can even call me a Qrewroom loudmouth. It adds nothing to the debate other than to show your lack of ability to discuss the merits of the issue but at least I'm a regular PPRUNE contributor and I actually have a pretty good chance of spotting the comments and responding. As a related point, whilst many people in QF know who Keg is, not many people in the wider PPRUNE community would know my personal details. I'd very much appreciate it therefore if you did not continue to utilise my christian name on this forum. Whilst it's not a secret- and I seem to recall once signing off a post with my full name on PPRUNE when someone else was playing the 'power' card that they knew who I was- I certainly don't want it 'out there' every day of the week particularly given how the media utilise this forum.
I'm certainly not aware of the all the LOA161 issues- and nor do I intend to be- but I won't go into that on here given that I've already raised my points in Qrewroom.
As to whether S/O fleet pay as part of EBA8 is BS or not, well you've read my posts on Qrewroom. I'm not going to bother repeating myself again here. If you want to have a shot, go for it on Qrewroom.
Wingspar, 'well intentioned new crew'. Does the fact that I've been on the 767 for ten of the last 12 years make me 'new'? Does the fact that I've been advocating the same principles for most of that time mean it's time to let it go? The say forget the 767 and look to the future and then you say that the 787 will be doing domestic as well. Given the 787 is about the same size then do you think that solving the issues raised on Qrewroom will actually do something about addressing the future also? Aren't you being just a tad inconsistent here? Perhaps properly recognising the value of 767 crew- particularly the F/Os of which I am not one so nothing in it there for me- ctually is all about the future.
Catch you boys (or girls) later.
(Now, where is my 'Don't feed the trolls' smiley?!?!
)