PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Performance of early jets and fans at high Airports
Old 18th February 2009 | 10:13
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BelArgUSA
 
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: AEP
HI-ALT Ops

Hola b377 -
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Unfortunately, my PanAm 707/720 manuals, and performance section are all but history, either recycled as paper, or given to pilot wannabees. I operated quite frequently to Bogota, Quito... and La Paz, in the 1969-1973 period, either as F/E or F/O on the 707/720.
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Actually, La Paz (LPB) was the only airport presenting an acute performance problem, because the altitude of the airport, at 13,400 ft. We had a couple of 720B approved and modified for operations at that airport. The regular 707 and 720 would have a cabin altitude warning when cabin altitude exceeded 10,000 feet... and the oxygen masks would drop in the passenger cabin should the altitude exceed 14,000 ft. (+/- 500 feet...!). Besides, the takeoff/landing limits for a regular 707/720 was 10,000 ft PA, so these 720B airplanes had a 15,000 ft PA limit waiver for LPB operations. I do not recall 707-321B/C so modified.
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So PanAm had a few 720B modified for silencing the cabin warning, and the barometric/electrical release of oxygen masks. I only recall operating 2 or 3 times from LPB with the 720B, the 20 flaps takeoff (could not use 30 flaps) and landing with 40 flaps (could not use 50 flaps) as requirements. Yet we operated direct from LPB to MIA, with a decent payload. We also took off unpressurized, no bleeds. I also recall that we were supposed to use our oxygen masks for 30 minutes before takeoff, was a FAA requirement, not observed by other non-USA air carriers. South American flight crews have turbocharged lungs...!
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I do not know what they did with the 727 operating in LPB. Never talked much with LAB flight crews about what engines they had. I recall that Mexicana operated there too, but with 727-200s with JT8D-17R engines and JATO emergency power available.
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As far as operating Quito, Bogota and Cali, in the 8,000 ft PA bracket, with the 747, it does not present a problem, yet the maximum T/O weights are reduced. I have a friend, who was Avianca training captain, who gave me a familiarization flight on a MD-80 jump seat to Bogota and Cali and showed me the "tricks of the trade" in case of engine failure operating to/from these places, and the little "hills" around these airports. Having a "SID" is fine, but the boys from Avianca sure know where to go and to turn.
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I recall the old (erroneous) attitude of many North Americans and/or Europeans who say "going to South America... fly only with American (or European) well trained pilots and airlines"... If you value your life, I personally would recommend the "local pilots and airlines" to get you "in or out" safely in these areas. Shall I mention the nice smiling cabin service... Flying to such places should not be "seniority" but "experience and familiarity"... and unfortunately, understand Spanish accented ATCOs. I have to admit, I often used Spanish for communications.
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Just my (educated) opinion... Ready for "flak"...
My rocking chair can handle that.

Happy contrails

Last edited by BelArgUSA; 18th February 2009 at 10:57. Reason: typos / fat fingers
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